SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Men's Wear Style Podcast. I'm your host, Peter Buffett. Today on the show, I am talking to the creative founder of W Rubens, Michael Shuttleworth. W.Rubens.com, the place to go. A little bit about W. Rubens. Minimalist, dynamic, iconic, a great white t-shirt, never goes out of style. Now made for your best bit and made to last. Handcrafted in the UK from luxury cotton using traditional tailoring techniques. Drawing from suiting sportswear and culture. Rubens is a fresh take on a classic staple. Texture, juxtaposition, and unexpected details that will turn heads. Also We have a community £15 discount that Michael is kindly offering our listeners. And if you go to checkout and type in menswear 15, then you will be entitled to a 15% discount. So once again, www.wrubens.com. We'll put all the links over on the show notes and on the website menswearstyle.co.uk. But once again, that gift code is menswear15 to get your 15% discount. And here to talk about W Rubens in his own words is Michael Shuttleworth.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

How do I describe the brand? I would say we're a modern take on a classic white t-shirt. What we do is we reinvent a t-shirt. And what we do is we kind of make it different. So it's not a t-shirt per se, it's it's kind of like a hybrid product. We're taking like elements from tailoring and um turning into a t-shirt form. So he has it has its duality, it's like you have a day feel, but you haven't like a night accent. Um, so it's a white t-shirt, and but it has like lapels, bibs, um, crisscross, necklines. It's just a play with um with with a t-shirt. Uh if you've seen the brand or this is our website, W Rubens, you'll see what we do, but it's predominantly like tailoring, um, influenced. So a lot a lot a lot of our products um actually use Saval Row techniques. So it's quite it's quite cool. It's it's not I can't I I do get offended sometimes because people say it's a t-shirt, but it's not really a t-shirt. Um, we just use clock cotton fabric, which is used for a t-shirt. So, what is it? Is it a t-shirt? Is it a jacket? What is it? It's a Rubens, it's it's a it's a it's a complete new product. Um technically it's tricky, tricky to do. You know, it's took me a good couple of years to get this, to get the right formula. I feel like finally, after three years of the brand, we got we got the formula. Um, so yeah, I'm I'm pretty excited for what we're doing right now. Um, I think the brand will really kick on like from 2024. Um because we're we're we're doing our first trade show. We're gonna pity Umo in Florence, January. Um, so it's gonna be really cool to be in front of people, the world, presenting the collection to um buyers, journalists, the media, and just showcasing what we do. It's like pure craft, it's all that's what we focus on. It's about the quality, it's about the craftsmanship, it's about the people behind the brand. Like W. Rubens has no association with my name. I just felt like I wanted to have like this sort of collaborative, sort of collective that people of different mediums, different arts come in and create like this really, really cool brand. So initially, I I I the reason why I started with t-shirt is like my my my life was I was a stylist for for 15 years, long time, hard time. But I enjoyed it. I was very lucky. I worked with the right clients, I wasn't doing the right things. Who are your clients, Michael? Uh a mixture, to be honest. A mixture of people. We've got like politicians, we got willpower people, we've got sports stars, film stars, music, musicians, all different types of people, but all predominantly wealth-based people. Um, so it gave me the great ability to travel around and you know, travel the world, you know, and get paid for it. It's pretty cool. Um, so I did that for a long time. Um, and that the reason why the idea was born was because everyone would say the same thing to me. Where do I buy a white t-shirt? And I'm like, I don't really know. Like, you don't have a library of a t-shirt company. You you don't you there's no company that's specifically focused on white t-shirts. Of course, everyone stocks a good t-shirt, but like you don't walk into a space and you have like 10 or 20 different variations and they're all different, uh, they all have a different sort of story and persona. So for me, that's when the like light bulb moment came on. Um, it's nothing revolutional. Um, but yeah, that was like eight years ago. I mean, it stuck with me. I felt like, yeah, that's a really good idea. It's nothing new, but you know, let's do it. And but what I did was kind of like played on the white t-shirt, but I in introduced my my my hobbies and my loves, which was um tailoring sportswear, culture, past, present, everything that was in my life, I would introduce it into the t-shirt form and create like these these um sort of products, which you know is not a t-shirt, it's not a jacket. What is it? A Rubens. Um, so yeah, I created like a sort of this narrative, different stories, different t-shirts from different influences. And like with my job, like I would travel the world extensively. Like I'm very, very grateful for my for my past career because it gave me a great opportunity to see the world. And you and a lot of t-shirts are inspired by world events and world history and just me being in different streets around the world. I mean, talking the all different continents, you can talk Africa, South America, North America, Europe, Asia. I've been there and I I was I wasn't there for like a day, I was there for a good couple of months. So I'm really immersed in culture and traditions and kind of just like a sponge, soaked it all up. And I just built this series, this collection of white t-shirts, t-shirts general, anyway. Um, I probably have like seven to eight thousand designs. But I'm pretty pretty, I'm pretty intense. Like if I do something, I do it well and I want to do as much as I can. Um yeah, yeah, and we started with a white t-shirt. Um so yeah, I I the brand was kind of built um during COVID, believe it or not. Um, I know a lot of people had tragedies and losses and hard times, but for me, it was my it was my golden time. I I say it for me, because it's the first time in my life that I had full freedom. It's the first time I woke up and I had nothing on my phone. So it was it was kind of like I was liberated, I was free from everything. So that's when I went back to that idea of the light bulb moment, which was the white t-shirt. I was like, we got all this design, all this data. Let's do something about it. I think like in life, it's about action. We all have these great ideas, but it's about action. I just don't want to be like one of these guys who just procrastinate. So I thought, like, yeah, let's do the this bit. And also, like in life general, there's there's no right time. You just gotta do it. So I just quit everything and just started the white t-shirt company. And the way it started was I just called a lot of friends, people I knew in the industry and said, hey, would you be interested in joining this brand and creating, you know, creating a t-shirt? And they're like, Yeah, hell yeah. So yeah, we built we built the brand over COVID, doing a lot of Zoom calls, you know, lots of meetings online. It was it was it was a fun moment. Um, but it was it was tough as well because you know, like for fit-ins and find fabrics, there was no go, there's no travel. So how do you how do you how do you get the right form? How do you get the right fabric? You know, that comes down to like you're being inventive, you know. I've from one from from my experience with the fabric, um, I was very lucky for Premier Vision, because Premier Vision migrated on uh to like an online marketplace, and from that I was just ordering fabrics from all over the world, um, literally every every mill around the world. So I've probably wrapped up about a huge expense of of um logistic bills, but for me, I want to give every company equal chance.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

So did you have a sorry to jump it, jump in there, Michael, but it was like a business. Did you sketch out a business plan and then kind of go for it in logical steps? Or did you did you have the idea and the premise, the conceit, and then just thought let's get the momentum of the idea going and hopefully the business plan will catch up?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Uh I think like the business plan was definitely there for sure. It was obviously framework, but you know, I'm not I'm not from a business background, I'm more of a creative, but you know, I appreciate business. You know, for me, I've been, you know, I came to London with nothing. I I built, you know, a quite a healthy ecosystem. I'm not gonna say a healthy empire because that's not quite where I am right now. Um, so yeah, I I I I build, I mean I know how to make money and I know how to run money. But in terms of business plan, it was kind of you know, I kind of like wanted to keep like a slender model. Um, one block, one T-shirt, one fabric. It was completely simple. Like I didn't want to have multiple fabrics, multiple colors, you know, like running, you know, the fashion industries, like everyone has minimums. Like, you know, you're gonna be that's why a lot of brands don't survive because after you got you gotta you gotta three to six-month windows and sell your stock. So I wanted something that was kind of like timeless, seasonless. So I felt like white t-shirt, one fabric, buy, and obviously then we build out the strategies and sort of the plan. But the plan was always there and it still is. Like, I what of for me is like I like to visualize, I always dream out the idea and write it down, sketch the plan. And just like I think life general, you you if you jump in a car and you don't know where you go, where do you drive? You just go driving around, you just don't know what you're doing. So for me, it's like I know exactly where I want to go. So for me, yeah, the the the the plan is most important, especially with business plans, because things don't go to plan. But when you look at the business plan, it reminds you of what you you you set out to do. It's that and they're crucial, like for any entrepreneur, any person in fashion doing a startup. Business plan is really fundamental in terms of like scale up scaling and growing a brand because it's a reminder. And as much as we want to design, like it's a reminder how to run a business. And business in fashion is paramount. If you can't run a business, you're not gonna survive. And and it's it's tough. Fashion businesses are tough. I have a lot of friends who are fashion designers, big designers, and they're not they're not breaking even. It's tough, tough, tough out there. And I think if you if you can study it on the business side, better, better, yeah. But in terms of the business plan, yeah, it was kind of set out, but it wasn't like crystal clear, it wasn't defining. Um, but I did work with someone who actually built business plans, so he did help me and navigate me and he gave me a good framework. So I'm grateful for him.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

And what were the most important things in the framework? So anyone else that's looking to get in the coattails of what you're doing, would you say are the are the key steps?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

I think like I think you've got to be very shrewd. I think like if you're gonna put money down, you've got to understand their ROI, which is return on investment. So if you're gonna put money on something, he's like, okay, what is my return? So just managing your cash flow is really, really important. I think that is the most important, understanding your costs. I think for my first phase at Rubens, like I went like I was product-centric. If I could rewind, I would say, okay, let's focus on product. Yes, great, it's important, but also focused on the mass marketing aspect as well. Because you can most you might you can be the most the most talented fashion designer creative, but if no one knows you, how are you gonna how are you gonna move? So it's about I think from from like my maturity and developing for developing and growing the brand. I think it's about marketing and positioning and just having you know 50-50 in terms of um you know, like budgeting. But it's tricky, I though, it's like how do you find information? Like everybody's out there to get you. But it's how do you like how do you find a good factory? How do you find a good mill? You know, it's it's there's a lot, there's a lot of complications in developing it's and how do you find good people as well? Because, you know, in fashion, it's very, you know, like you can't do everything because it's you know it's basically impossible to do everything. I'm not saying it's not it can't be done, but just focus on your talents and try and outsource the good people to the things that you're not so good at. I think that's a good one. Um, but I think this budgeting is really important in fashion. And having like um a safe a safety bank just in case things don't go well, there's money that you can have it can help you survive because um yeah, it it's expensive to grow and start a brand, from my experience. Yeah from my experience. Um I really wish there was more information out there to to you know find partners, find people that can help you and grow your brand because you know you you need machinists, you need pattern cutters, you need a factory, you need production, you know, sampling. There's there's so many like questions, and you know, for young creators, it's it's how do you start?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Um Michael, uh I I'm just sorry to jump in, but your start, your beginning, you're talking about being a stylist for 15 years. Were you um what were you before that? Was that were you trained to be a stylist? Were you trained to be a tailor or a designer?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

No, I studied architecture, but I never finished because my heart wasn't there. I I always wanted to for me, if if you want to be the best, you've got to learn from the best. Um I had a lecturer who wasn't really interested in what he did, so that kind of like rubbed off on me, and I felt like you're not inspiring me. So I kind of ran off and came to London when I was 18. Pretty much uh came from nothing really, just lived in a in a studio flat in Bayswater. I think uh all in one, and I never seen quite a apartment like it was, but that's what you could, that's what you do for your passion and your love. You know, I always knew I wanted to create a fashion brand from an early age. Like I'm I originally grew up, I grew up in Wales, um, in a small village. Um had a love of fashion from an early age, pop videos, fashion magazines, a stylish, stylish mother. No, just love clothes, just mad about collecting beautiful clothes. Like I'm extremely grateful for my mom who kind of got me out of the normality. She always wanted me to be different. I mean different, like she wanted me to be someone where everyone would laugh at, being just being unique in your character. But I didn't really understand it was as a kid, but I really appreciate now because you you you know, you you you know who you are, you're original, you're not manipulated, you're not manipulating sorry, you um you're not like copying people's styles, you know, you're not stealing styles, you're authentically you nowadays it's pretty easy to do that because you just go on social media and say, Oh, I like his style, oh, I like her style, and you just copy. But growing up it was tough, but like as a child, what we'd do, my mom would just go around the UK looking for like um independent fashion shops, and it was just great just being around that, just going to different sites, different stores, different personalities, and just cherry-picking things that you liked. You know, and I was very lucky as a child, I would travel with my parents, and we would do this, we would do the same when we go to like different countries and we'd find cool stuff, unique stuff, bohemian stuff. And I kind of think that kind of made me as a as a you know as a creative, just learning from beautiful designs, local designers, and just just understanding their their their vision. I became friends with many of the boutique owners as I grew older. And I just love their spirit and their passion for what they what they do. You know, I feel like everybody wants to look great, but you know, they want they want they want these big branded names. There's no one really believes in the little there's people out there that do, but no one wants to take take you know um take on the small brands. No, like you know, it comes down to the buyers as well. So they all want about they want like these huge following, these huge communities, these likes, or like and it's it's hard sometimes to navigate because you know we're not all Gucci and we're not all LV. We've got to start from somewhere. We need people that are you know real, are authentic and are true. Because if if there's no support, how do we change, how do we have newness? How do we like how do we grow grow grow into a new sort of image? The same brands, the same designs, it's a bit boring. There's no there's no personality, and for me, that's why I kind of want to inject with W Rubens, I want to inject like a new a new style and a new persona, but people can say, Oh wow, this is a bit different, this is a bit unique.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Let's talk about the style of the t-shirts, Michael. Sorry to jump over here. But the uh so like if anyone has jumped on the website or the the Instagram, which is uh W Rubens or W is it's W Rubens on Instagram, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

W Rubens, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Uh like the t-shirts have an element of tailoring to them. You've got like this, I want to say like an asymmetrical lapel, which kind of sounds very different for a t-shirt, or you know, different kind of bibs and fronts. There's obviously some tailoring that has to go on with this, with the make of the t-shirt. And I'm just curious as to someone like you who hasn't got a say a background in tailoring on how to know how to cut, how do you get what's out of your head onto paper and then from paper to execution and garments?

SPEAKER_02 19:15

So, you know, like just doing a lot of drawing. I do a lot of drawing, I do a lot of drawing, too much drawing. Um, but you you lean on you lean on a pattern cutter, and you know, I I I I work directly with the pattern cutter. So they they they draw my vision, they correct, they cut my vision. So working directly with them. It's important to have a good pattern cutter. And I I do obviously now I've been around it for a few years now. I'm starting to do it myself. Sometimes it is important to demonstrate and show what you actually want because how do you go into someone's mind? You can't. You know, I'm a visionary, I see things, and for that, it's like how do you channel? Sometimes you can communicate, sometimes you can draw, but it's still not what you want it to be. So I demonstrate, I'm I'm learning. I'm not saying I'm the best pattern cutter, but you know, I'm learning something that I enjoy very, very much. Kind of numbs my mind, if we're honest. But the thing is, like with when it comes to pattern cutting, for people that want to be a pattern cutter, it's nothing daunting. It's basically scissors and paper. It's just putting pieces of paper together and creating that creating the silhouette. Like when I when I when I looked at it, I'm like, this is so difficult, but it's not, it's just practice, just being disciplined, committed, and just doing it, you know, just practice makes perfect.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Are you doing some at home on your own time? Like in the studio do it, yeah, I do it.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

I'm very lucky to have a great partner. Um, I have a manufacturing partner in North London, um, in Bounds Green. It's called Unlimited Fashion. And I would say he's kind of the godfather of British design. He's a great man. He's a great man. Um, and what he does is he supports young brands. The way he supports young brands, he a young brand can go in and say, I want to do an order. And he's like, Yeah, sure. You don't have to pay any payment, you don't have to do it net 30 or pay half up front. You all you've got to do is you've got to pay when the goods are ready. So a lot of young brands have passed through him. JW Anderson, A. Cole Wall, Craig Green, you know, these are brands that are really leading fashion in UK right now. So he's responsible for that. He gave him the break, and he's given me the break. So um I go to the factory a lot, just mess around, draw, cut, play. I think it's about enjoying what you do. Um, because you know, you're gonna have really, really great space to you know, you know, you give people character. You know, for me, I want to, I wanna, I wanna make that person feel you you. Unique, brilliant, excellent. You know, for me, it's about enhancing that person. You know, we're in some ways we're magicians as designers because you're transforming people. Um, so yeah, it's really important that you do it with love and excitement and yeah, enthusiasm. Um, so yeah, I I do it a lot actually. I I I go to the factory yeah, four days out of my week, um, probably from next year with the brand's growth. I'd probably be there five, seven days a week. Um, it's important to be there, seeing, seeing how how how everyone works. Are people happy? And that's the beautiful thing about you know having you know a presence in the UK. You can actually check in on new people, you can see the machinist, you can see the pattern cutter, you can see the cutter to the steamer. You you you you see everyone. And it's it's that's why that's why I want that's why I partnered up with uh the UK-based factory because I really believe in a local economy. I believe in craft and I believe in this country. Um, and you know, if we don't support our our craftsmen and crafts women, it's not going to survive. So um, you know, it's really I'm really proud to be you know a UK-based brand. Um, I think 90% of our of our of our partners are based in the UK. Um, I always put I always put um UK-based businesses first. Um, the only thing that's not British is my my cotton. Uh my cotton is a BCI cotton, which is a better cotton initiative. So it's um sustainable farming, um, protec welfare and people, which is great. Um again, another story to tell. Initially, this fab this fabric mail didn't want to work with me. Um they they they work with the likes of Logiana, Prada, um, Gucci, LV. They don't work with startups, but I didn't I didn't let that get to me because I know who I am and I know where this brand is going. So I just hounded them. And I think one of my biggest strengths is my resilience. I don't say no, I don't, I don't accept no. So I just kept on and on. And eventually I had an appointment with them. So I went to Italy, sat down with them, showed them the product. They felt my energy. They said, okay, we're in. So they gave me that, they gave me a break. They said, we don't normally work with startups, but we like you, and we're gonna put it, we're gonna take a chance with you. So yeah, then they're my partner. I've been with them for since the brand started. Um great, great family business, great fabrics. I would say they're ugly, they're probably the the finest fabrics in cotton, the best. Really, really, really luxurious hand feel, great, great cloth, washed, worn, great. You know, a brilliant product. Um I'm excited to do grow with them because they have beautiful sweats, um, cotton, which I'm looking to unveil next year, like hoodies, pants, just everything. My my mission with the brand is to turn into a fashion company. Yes, we start with t-shirts, but you know, in time we want to do everything and everything in the men's space. Um, but you know, you've got to be modest, you gotta be you got like you gotta be you gotta be realistic as well. I I say, you know, slow is the move fast, take your time, get it right. I really want to be known for my t-shirt. Um, so that's what I'm driving. I'm not looking at other products right now. I have an inventory of like 10,000 different designs, trousers, jackets, suits. But I just don't wanna I just want to focus on this t-shirt, get it right, build, build a company, build a community that you know is appreciative of of what we do. Like next year, we're gonna introduce um new colours, um, which is cool. Talks with different artists about doing prints. So, yeah, it's quite it's gonna be gonna be an eventful year next year. We're gonna be really impressive on how we position ourselves. I think it all starts with pity umo, be interested in be in front of buyers, see what they what they think of the product. Um, and yeah, hopefully if it goes well, we'll be in with shops around the world. That's the that's the plan, really.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Really?

SPEAKER_02 26:27

And then after Pity, then we go to Chicago, which is another trade show, another famous one called uh Chicago Collections. So if people don't know about that one, try it. You know, from my experience with Rubens over the last few years, America Martin, the American market is super hot, and American clients and brands who teach retailers are loving what British brands are doing right now. So, yeah, that's gonna be a good moment for us. I'm excited to go to North America and hopefully hit it off.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, fantastic. Well, listen, Michael, thanks for walking us through the brand. Um, I'm gonna enjoy watching this space, and people can enjoy watching it also. wrubens.com, the place people can check out the brands, and also wrubens on Instagram, which I'm gonna follow right now. And you have a link tree there. You can go and buy everything through the link tree and have a look and check that out and say hello on the on the Instagram to Michael. But in the meantime, great talking to you, Michael.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Brilliant, and uh keep keep up the good fight with the London production, London manufacturing, and everything. We we need people like you in the out there in the field, and uh and best of luck in Pity.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Thank you so much. Thank you for that. Thanks, Pete. Thank you. Good time.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

You've been listening to the Menswear Style Podcast. Be sure to head over to menswearstyle.co.uk for more menswear content and email info at menswearstyle.co.uk if you would like to be a future guest on the show. Finally, please help support the show by leaving a review on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Until next time.