SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Men's Wear Style Podcast. I'm your host, Pete Brooker. Today on the show, I am talking to the founder of Billy Tannery, Jack Millington. Billy Tannery is a new kind of leather company. After discovering that every goat skin left over from the British food industry was going to waste, they decided to do something tapping into local leather knowledge. They have turned an old farm building into the UK's first goat leather microtannery. Their growing range of leather goods is designed and handmade in Britain to celebrate this exceptional material. And here to tell you all about Billy Tannery is the founder, Jack Millington. Well, it's my great pleasure to introduce the founder of Billy Tannery. Jack Millington, how are we doing today, Jack?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I'm very well, thank you, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Great. Well, listen, thanks for taking time out. Please introduce yourself and how best do you describe the brand?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

So my name is Jack Millington, and I'm I'm the founder of a business called Billy Tannery, which um is what what we describe as a new kind of leather company. So uh we're a leather goods company predominantly, we're a leather goods brand, but we have our own tannery, which uh which is uh very unusual for for a company like ours. And so the the the focus for us is all around leather and sort of trying to rethink what what leather means in kind of modern times. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Tell me how you started in this journey. Where did you begin?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, so my I don't have a background in leather at all. Uh I I came at this from a slightly different angle in that uh I grew up on a farm and uh I I certainly wasn't the the child that wanted to be a farmer. I I was keen to get up off the farm and into into the city and and kind of followed followed my interests uh in sort of the creative industries, I guess, and and ended up working in in marketing um and advertising and and in that kind of surrounding area for for a good while, actually. And and it sort of slowly dawned on me that actually I wanted to do something with a bit more substance and perhaps there was something I could do that was linked back to the farm. And it was kind of in that process that I uncovered this uh so fascinating world of leather and found out that basically the the leather industry in the UK had all but disappeared. And yeah, I th I with my marketing head on, I could see a story here and and uh and wondered whether I could do something um that was linking the farm to leather and and leather goods and create a brand out of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Interesting. Why did would you think that the leather industry was on its knees at the time when you were thinking this in the UK?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah, I mean it in the UK specifically, it it's the same story as a lot of manufacturing, in that it just over the years, uh, with low-cost competition from um from overseas, uh UK manufacturing businesses struggled to compete on price. And I think I think what not many of them were able to sort of change tack and start thinking about creating a sort of more premium product um and telling that story about why it's so good at uh to be done here in the UK. And I think that's what happened with the leather industry, it just couldn't compete with with low-cost um uh leather that's that's made in in countries where not only labour is cheaper, but um environmental regulations are not quite closely followed. And I I think that's sort of what started the decline of the leather industry, but it's it's it's one of those things that's happened over decades, and it's now even got it's got to the point now where they're probably only not even 10 tanneries left in the UK from probably hundreds in the in the 80s.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Right. Jack, you're gonna have to forgive me. Can you explain what a tannery is exactly and the process of what goes on? I mean, you know, for loads of people that don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Sure. So yeah, I mean, tanning's one of those things that leather is everywhere, but you don't really stop to think about how it's made. And uh what most people don't. And and I think what most people have in their heads when they think of a tannery is maybe what they might have seen in Morocco or um or somewhere like that, where you can picture these sort of big open pits with people walking around in um shorts and uh and it smelling horrible. And I think that is the sort of the brand image that that leather has, that all leather's made in this sort of smelly, um unclean environments. And really uh leather's one of the the oldest materials that that man's ever ever made. So it that before sort of industrial techniques, it was it was done in quite a natural way, and that's and that's kind of what we try and focus on. But the in essence, leather is is what um what you get when you transform uh the the hide or skin of an of an animal into a material that can be used over a long period of time. So you you've stopped it from going off, and you've um through a series of processes, you're you're um removing and then adding um uh certain substances in to turn it into leather, which is which is what what you would recognize.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

And then in the tannery, are you actually making the goods itself or are you just sourcing and preparing the leather so that it can be made elsewhere?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Uh yeah, so exactly that. So the the tannery is where we produce the leather, and at the moment, anyway, um the the actual products are made in uh in separate workshops in the UK as well, but it's it's not all done under one roof. The the tannery is where the material itself is is made.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Right, okay. And talk to me, uh I guess a little bit about the products. I'm keen to know what makes Billy Tannery, excuse me, uh the special and different to other brands out there now.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Well, it kind of goes back to that to that same thing around the leather. I think that like uh it's it's rare for a leather goods brand to actually have such a focus on the leather. And I think what everything that we're doing with our products is um is in order to celebrate that that leather. And it's kind of uh the way that we tan, um which is called vegetable tanning, is um uh is done with sort of natural bark extracts, and we're not adding lots of um uh finishes and and and uh artificial coatings so that the leather kind of looks uniform. So every piece of our leather is different. So what what we try to do with our range of products is is to sort of keep the leather center stage so there aren't lots of bells and whistles. We they're quite classic pieces, they're they're sort of intentionally minimal so that the actual leather is the is the focus. That that that's the that's the goal for us.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, and how is the leather sourced? I guess a lot of people will want to know about ethical practices and how do you approach that? What is your philosophy when it comes to that?

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Well, I mean, for us, the the the whole thing is about the traceability, that that's that's what is missing in in the leather industry generally, and that's one of the the criticisms often is this we don't know where this has come from, we don't know what sort of farm it's come from, has it been involved in deforestation or bad animal um husbandry or anything like that? And the the we've sort of gone to the other extreme where it's everything we we we know where the each piece of leather has come from because we source the um the goat skins and the deer skins that we tan predominantly, we source them from uh from the meat companies and from the farms. So rather than just going to a sort of wholesale market and saying, okay, well, we're gonna buy the the source our our hides and skins from there, I specifically go to particular um farmers or or meat companies that I know and I can talk to and I can trust, and we we source from from there. And that's that's kind of where it all starts, is all about that traceability.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And has that gone back to how you were talking about earlier growing up on farms and being in the community itself, you know, growing up, were you able to leverage that Rolodex of your childhood and bring that into the business?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Uh I wouldn't say necessarily. I think that growing up on the farm, I have a different perspective to a lot of people when I'm thinking about leather. So I think that's meant that I've lent into that and can kind of distinguish between the sort of farms or um meat producers that we want to source from versus the ones that necessarily uh that m might not have the same kind of ethos. And I think that that's been really helpful. That I guess that's my kind of unique perspective that maybe other people in the leather industry might not have.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah. Uh we talk about it on the on the show quite a bit. How I feel like this show in particular really champions brands that have that authentic fru line where people can kind of see it from start to end and get the story without you know, there's not any ambiguity where it's like, well, we're definitely British, we've definitely got London in our name, we've definitely got London on the on the patches on in the packaging as well, on the on the clothes, and then you go through the fine print and find out that it's you know made in Bangladesh or something like that. It's if this brand, especially, I think, um really harks back to beginning, middle, and end. And I think that's probably me looking in what makes you guys very unique and what probably is your USP.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Well, that's good. I'm glad that it's uh that that's what comes through because I think that that's what we we really try and focus on. I think, yeah, the the the only the only other thing, and and one of the uh uh things we talk about quite a lot and we have to talk about quite carefully is the whole idea of um the fact that the the highs and skins that that we use tend to be waste products. So the before we get got there, they were they were literally just being destroyed. Because that's the as I said, there's there's not that there aren't enough tanneries left um in the UK to to take them. And the sort of the infrastructure's all been crumbling over the years. So sadly, what happens to a lot of highs and skins is they they get destroyed at a cost to the the meat producers. So it we're sort of coming in to try and solve that waste problem what by turning it into this material which has been around for thousands, thousands of years, which in some ways is strangely uh innovative to be doing this, um which sounds strange sometimes when you're doing something that that sounds so traditional.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, no, that that's pretty pretty cool. And you also mentioned earlier about your marketing and how that was something you went away from the farm and studied. How would you say that that skill set has dovetailed into Billy Tannery and what you're doing now?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

I mean, I think again, it's it's a it's part of the the perspective that I try and bring to this this industry. I think there's I think with particularly with around tanneries and leather, uh, there is a really great story to tell about how it's made and uh uncover things that people wouldn't necessarily think about. And and I think that is what um having a marketing background, you can kind of see what those stories are and hopefully pull out what's interesting and package it up in a way that is a bit more palatable to people than maybe a tannery might might seem at first.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, how many people are on the team now?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So the full-time team um is three of us. Um, so it's uh it's me, um, and uh recently uh last year I've hired um a graduate, a fashion graduate who's um called Martha, who's helping me on um all across the business, but um predominantly with sort of design and project management. And then I have an uh apprentice called Mark who who started in the tannery with me again um last year um and is learning the whole sort of tanning process from me so that I can um focus on other areas of the business. But um yeah, that that's the sort of the the core team, but but as with many small businesses, we have a kind of a network of of other kind of freelancers and and other people that that we work with to keep things to keep things going without having a huge team.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah. And I'm just on the Instagram now, so that's why I might look semi-distracted as I was talking to you. Your Instagram, I should say, uh, which is tannery. And the products look fantastic. Some of the bags, the satchels that I'm looking at here. Can you and the the wallets, the boots, can you walk me through some of some of the products and and also maybe just some of your favorites as well?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, the the the focus from the start for us was on kind of like a small core range of of products, and that and that's pretty much what we've still got to you today. We we kind of have added a few other bits that people have been asking for, but something like our our roll top backpack is is probably our signature product. Um it's kind of top of the range for us, but it it's one of those products that just it just works. I I've I I will use one every day, and it the the design means that it can either be um rolled up tight if you haven't got a huge amount with you, or then if you need to go for the weekend, it it rolls up and you can fit lots more in it. So you've got a bag which is like an everyday bag, but also you can you could definitely take it as a weekend bag. And that that one has been sort of one of our real signatures from the start. And um, there's another one which is our uh like a large tote bag, which we we sort of semi-jokingly called the goat early on. The goat bag and that, and that just stuck. So that and that's that's been one of our best sellers um since since we've launched. And yeah, you you'll see they're not they're not um it's it's not about like uh really intricate designs. They're they're they're quite classic, sort of timeless, and and um that that seems to be resonating with people, which is which is good.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And I'm curious about the boots. You partnered with Grenson as well last year, by the looks of things. Are these still available?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Sadly, the Grenson boots aren't available at the moment. They um they were a short short-run collaboration that we that we did with Grenson, which which was a fantastic project. I mean, that was a real sort of dream for me was to work with one of the big Northampton shoemakers. And um, we have been talking to them for quite a long time, and and and yeah, it was great to to get that project across the line. We we essentially provided them with some leather for them to make a really short run uh batch of what of one of their boots. And uh, and that's and then I think they sold out pretty much straight away. So those those have all gone sadly, but but we we do our own um collaborations in in footwear with a with a couple of other small makers in the UK on a sort of fairly regular basis. So that um we we've done sneakers um with a company called Goral in Sheffield and um desert boots with uh with a a guy in in Suffolk called um as a company called Jad Shoes, which has uh been really popular for us. We'll be doing those again quite soon. Um, but it's essentially allows us to collaborate with other manufacturers in the UK to use our leather to make other stuff that that we know people will will like.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Oh, that's that's amazing. I I really encourage people to go on the website as well, by the way, Billy Tannery, to have a look at the products to shop, but to go through the products themselves on Instagram. I'm just scrolling through the sneakers, look fantastic. Have you got anything in the pipeline regards to collaborations that you can talk about, or is it maybe something up the sleeve for now?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Well, um there's nothing I can talk about in terms of uh any particular brands that we're that we're going to be working with, but um it's it's something I've been really keen to do for a long time, is is um obviously another sort of big category in leather is outerwear and um and jackets. So something that's been boiling in the sort of boiling is probably the wrong word, bubbling along in the slowly in the background, is um is a project to launch our first jacket. Um and it's it's uh been a lot harder than I thought it would be to sort of um design, and then we've been sampling with uh with um a couple of different manufacturers. And I'm hoping at some point this year that that um we'll have something to to bring to people.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

And with that, do you have to collaborate with pattern cutters or other manufacturers in order to produce the designs themselves? Have you got an idea in your mind of what the jacket can look like? What's what is the process?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

So, what what normally happens is we'll we'll start with kind of a inspiration and and know roughly what um we're looking for. Um now that Martha's joined, she's uh she's a lot better than I am and actually getting that down on onto paper and actually having uh training in actually being able to design properly and sketch and do specs and stuff. But obviously, when it comes to making products, you you need people with with real technical skills. So we tend to work with um either specialist uh accessories designers or in this case of the jacket, we've we've worked, we're working with a um with a bespoke tailor actually to to to sort of come up with the patterns and and and work on on all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

That's fascinating. Well, Jack, don't let me put words in your mouth. The way I see these projects working, in my mind at least, is it's something like a Formula One team, where they'll a car company will build something just for performance and go, well, we're gonna throw everything at this just to see what the tech can do, just to see where the limits are, and then we'll dial it back and see if we can make some kind of line or a production of it. Are you is that a phase that you go through where you go, right, let's just get the best product out there, let's make a few of prototypes, let's work with these guys, we'll we'll do it at a loss, but at least we can know if it's possible or not.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

It's a good way of looking at it. I mean, we um as a small company uh sadly not quite like a Formula One team where we can throw millions and millions of pounds at designing the best, the best thing possible.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Signing blank checks, just get them to make it, who cares?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, I mean that that would that would be fun. But um, but it's it's a bit of both. Like we obviously we want to be as creative as possible, try and come up with try and push boundaries of what we can do with our leather. Um, but because I kind of mentioned that we we like for us, it's all about British manufacturing as well. So it's about finding like the right um manufacturing partners, individuals who make stuff in leather at small workshops, and and really trying to design around what's what it can be made really well in this country, because I think there are so many things you can make from leather that um it's easy to get a bit distracted and say, Oh, we could do this, we could do this. And then when you get down to it, you actually we don't really have that kind of manufacturing in the UK. Um, and certain things it's then really hard to try and try and get make. So yeah, to a certain extent, we we are obviously trying to trying to do stuff to the to the like really interesting new stuff. But if we can't find someone locally to make it, then we have to sort of park it and and hope maybe it'll it'll it'll come back in the future.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah. And I'm curious, do you have design influences yourself and do you impart those into the brand? Like do you look at films and iconic jackets or boots, or you know, where how does it work?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

So I mean, I obviously being a being a small brand with with me kind of the the sort of driving force, a lot of it does come from kind of my my inspiration. I mean, I've always been into um into clothes, into fashion, and sort of um quite sort of classic, I guess, not nothing too nothing too out there. So I think for me, it's all it's always been about those sort of quality references. So like thinking of the UK, Grentston's a really good example. It's like they they're a sort of a uh sort of an old old brand on the surface, but are doing things in a kind of modern way and how and how you can kind of do that without losing what is great about kind of traditional British stuff. And that's what I've tried to bring into Billy Tannery is is is that that is it's it's not ever going to be too sort of avant-garde or anything like that, but it's about trying to find classic stuff. And I think that's what resonates with uh our customers who are who tend to be guys. Um we it's there's a there's a quite a good split between men and women, but it tends to be guys who are buying the sort of bigger bags and stuff. And I think that the sort of audience that um buys our products, they they're not looking for something that's sort of completely out there in terms of design. It's it's largely about the leather and and the story around it. And and um, and yeah, and that that's kind of come from my my my input and my desire how I want to do things.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

And can people see these products in the flesh, pardon the pan? Or is it purely online?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

It's a good point. And and we've sort of tried various things in the past to make sure people can can come and have a look at the products, and it but at the moment we're um it's only online, but but we offer like a really um sort of easy to use returns policy. So like if if people want to, it happens quite a lot, they want to have a look at a bag, then it's fine. If they don't, if they want to try a different bag, then we just we end up sending them back and forth a little bit online. But it's it's um it kind of works for us rather than having to have our own store, which we would like to do in the future. It's just about the right timings with stuff like that. It's a big, it's a big undertaking to do that. And we we're talking to a to a couple of um sort of potential options where we might have just a look like a little presence in another in another brand's shop, um, just so that people do have that place to go and have a look, get the products in their hand, because that is quite important with leather, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Do you have bespoke clients as well that approach you for individual things?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Over the years, we have done bespoke a little bit. It's it's can be a bit tricky um to to manage, just in terms of uh finding like quite often the the we're looking to make sort of larger batches of products and to sort of throw in something completely uh completely bespoke can be tricky. It's not to say we don't do it. We if the project is right, we we will do it for individuals. A big a big part of our business actually these days is a bespoke kind of B2B offering. So we we kind of use our same um supply chain, our same leather and and manufacturing to make products for um predominantly hospitality businesses. So we do a lot of restaurants and bars and we and we do sort of fit outs from menu covers and placemats and aprons and all that kind of stuff. And and that that's kind of gone from strength to strength, that side of the business. And um and uh yeah, I actually I I love it. I mean, who do who doesn't like going to nice restaurants to to check out the uh the menus?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, yeah, that's brilliant. And yeah, I think it's these little touches that people love when they go out and have experiences. You know, I was just talking to a friend today because I was working in the the new Arlington restaurant that's been opened up by Jeremy King, who owned the Woolsey, and we were putting all of the David Bailey uh photos on the wall and we were looking at the plates, and the plates all go down at the time of the opening. So, like there'll be a marker and it'll go, the marker will be set on the table for like 12, and then if it has the evening set menu, it'll be set around the dial of the plate. Anyway, all these little things that you just kind of subconsciously take in sometimes, but the the tactile element of picking up a menu. I mean, that's where it all begins, really, in the journey of having something to eat is feeling that in your hand and knowing that you're in good hands, but really so dig it, dig it. Well, Jack, thank you so much for taking time. I had a whole load of other questions where you lined up about the the process of becoming a lever tanner, you know, the the different terminology of full-grain artificial coatings, etc. But I feel like um I feel like I've covered some ground with you that that was interesting to me, at least, and I'm sure it's interesting to our listeners. So I want to thank you for your time. And people can go to billytannery.co.uk to find out more about you guys. And uh, was there anything else that you wanted to mention?

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Well, I mean, the only the only thing to mention and and uh and a sort of a really exciting project that we've been working on recently that people will see kind of alluded to on our on our Instagram um is a a project with the Royal Estates that we've been working on recently, um, taking deer skins from um both Balmoral and Windsor and turning them into products that are sold in each of the shops. And uh it's been a sort of a long-term project trying to work out how how this was going to work between us and and the royal estates. And uh it's sort of finally out there in the in the world. And and uh yeah, there's a there's a link in our Instagram to a piece that was in the Times where where I got called a hipster tanner, which I thought was quite funny. Um but uh that's the only other project I I would mention because it's it's a sort of another side to what we do on the on the deer leather side as well as as well as goat where we started.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Right. And you're in there as well in the tannery, and you know, you've got the the work dungarees on. So you're very much hands-on in the business that people can see, I guess. And are you behind the social as well? As in, are you handling the social media if people DM? Are you in the background there?

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Yeah, it's it's largely me. Yeah, it's uh it's either me or Martha who's uh who who works with me. So it's a it's a very small team at the moment, so people can can definitely get that kind of personal service if they get in touch via email or or or DM on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Once again, Billy Tannery and the photos are fantastic. I mean, you must have you must have worked hard to get all the images looking so good in terms of professional. I mean but listen, uh Jack, thanks again. No, it's all it's been fun and uh hope to speak to you soon. Brilliant. You've been listening to the Menswear Style podcast. Be sure to head over to menswearstyle.co.uk for more menswear content and email info at menswearstyle.co.uk if you would like to be a future guest on the show. And finally, please help support the show by leaving a review on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Until next time.