SPEAKER_03 0:08

Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Men's Wear Style podcast. I'm your host, Pete Booker. Today on the show, I am talking to the co-founders of Simswear, Billy Stim Tilditch and Rory Bennett. A little bit about Stimswear. They're on a mission to simplify wardrobes by ending the cycle of fast fashion driven by seasonality. They create timeless designs to outlive trends and which are of the highest quality craftsmanship and materials. They take a different approach to clothing, they make it well and they make it last. And in doing so, they protect the planet's precious natural resources. Sounds good. Simsware.com is the place to go. We'll leave a link in the show notes. But to tell us more about the brand is Billy and Rory. Okay, on line one, we've got Billy Sims Hilditch and Rory Bennett. They're the co-founders of Simsware. How are we doing today, gents?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Very well, thank you. Very well. Thanks for having us on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, it's um it's exciting to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

I'm excited. I'm excited. Guys, well, uh typically we're we're both in London. You guys are down in Marleybone, I'm in Chiswick, but uh the signal has already got a five-second delay. We'll see if we can get through that. I don't know what it is. Whenever I speak to anyone in America, it's crystal clear. But yeah, I can speak to someone over the fence and it's feels like we're on Mars, but hopefully we'll we'll suffer it.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I think unfortunately we can vouch for the fact that we've been uh since moving into our shop, we've been incredibly cheap and haven't invested in a proper Wi-Fi thing. So we've been hot spotting the whole time that we've been here. So hopefully it's all right and we can uh manage to make our way through it.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

The cost of living, people don't don't think about the cost of Wi-Fi on top of that as well, right? Um well listen, Jens. Exactly. Jens, I want to hear about well, I want to hear about the brand and how you guys have toiled away over the summer to get some bricks and mortar and get this off the ground. Um I guess Billy, let's start with you. Can you can we have an introduction, a broad overview of the brand?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah, of course. So uh I so Sims OS started uh three years ago. Um it was uh effectively coming off the uh I'm sort of out of COVID. Uh I was I was about to, after leaving university, was about to go into a grad scheme in sort of the automotive industry around sort of branding um and sort of marketing, that kind of area. And they came back to me basically and said, sorry, we're not running it this year anymore because of COVID. Um and in the meantime, I uh had, you know, I was living at home, I was trying to think about what I could do with my time, and I'd had this jumper which had effectively fallen apart often in the space of about one year. Um, spent a lot of money on it, uh, well, a lot for me, uh, which was about you know 200 pounds, which is a lot for most people, frankly. Uh, and it was just really, you know, pissed off to say as it is about the quality, the poor quality of it. Um, so you could have got some decent Wi-Fi for that price. Sorry. Yeah, fair enough. So I'm putting a lot of effort and research into um into working out what it was that made a really good quality piece of knitwear. Um so I wanted to understand, you know, uh where I could effectively buy that really nice jumper that I wanted, but I didn't want to effectively have to pay for a brand on top of it. I just wanted the good jumper. Um, so after a lot of that research, uh came across this sort of these idea, this idea around sort of three pillars of knitwear that you need to have a really good quality jumper. So you need really good raw fiber, a really good yarn spinner, and a great knitter. Uh, and then if you get all three of those all lined up, then you should have a great piece of uh knitwear. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen, or very rarely happens in the in uh sort of you know modern businesses because people are chasing costs and whatnot. Um, but I just had you know, I had a had a theory that there are people out there like me that want to know that what they've got is as good as it can be without paying for a you know a label on the front of it, um, having to pay extra for that. Uh so to cut a long story short, it was either sort of reapply for the crowd scheme or uh go through um and order a small sort of volume of these small quantity of these jumpers. Uh and I went for that because I thought I'm never gonna get the opportunity again. And uh and we're here still three years later with a bit of an expansion of what that was.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Interesting. Okay, yeah. So a nice story of something that was a need for you personally, and you go, right, okay, let's let's see if we can not solve this, but make something that will improve what you already have. Rory, where do you come in on this? How do you guys know each other?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

So Billy and I lived uh with each other in in university. Uh we were at XT University together, um, and you know, been great friends since since our first year. And um I left university and and joined uh the finance industry and and kind of went through the grad scheme and things like that and did just under three years as a stockbroker um before realizing um well, I mean, I realized pretty early on that it wasn't really for me, but I kind of tried to slog it out for a bit as long as I could. Um and then yes, finally decided it really wasn't for me. And um Billy kind of approached me, knew, knew that I was not um not enjoying it, and and he said, Do you would would you like to join Simsware? I've um always been looking for a business partner. Um and you know, he someone with a bit more uh financial and operational acumen, you could say. Yeah, maybe, maybe so. Um and yeah, I mean it was it was a pretty easy decision for me. I've I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur, I've never really had the nuts to do it. So kind of nice coming into a business to a year and a half in where Billy's sort of done the the real hard yards to get it off the ground initially. Um, but also I love the product. I I bought some of Billy's first ever jumpers. I've always loved the product, and um, and I could see what Billy was building. He's like built such a kind of beautiful looking brand and and he's focused on the right things around kind of the quality of the product, and and hopefully that comes through when when people see see see the brand and whatnot. But I could just I could see that there was something here, and I could I I obviously trust Billy um and but but but also I think more importantly, I can see the talent that he's got around building the brand and designing the clothes and picking out the colours and um a real eye for detail. So it was it was a pretty easy um decision for me to be honest. Um, and and and as Billy said, it's a kind of complementary set of skills rather than the two of us both being creative and and designy. It's um Billy's very good at that side of things, and and I'm slightly more strategic and um finance orientated. Um the the I guess the less glamorous side of running a business, but equally important. Um so yeah, we make a make a good team, and um uh yeah, I I I joined officially in in January of this year. Right, okay. Um as a as a kind of shareholder and and director and and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Interesting, yeah. And it's it must be good for you guys, you know, having having a history together and a friendship that's already there, that you can have a good shorthand coming into the business so that you guys you don't have to feel each other out for want of a better phrase. I've got a business partner as well that I've known for about 40 years, and so we can we can just cut through the crap cake when anything's going on and we just need to get from A to B. We don't have to be sensitive about each other's feelings, we can just go straight in, which is um good for me.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Not that was always I was gonna say that was always something for me which was so important because I uh from day dog I always thought I need like a business partner to make this really happen because I've got my set of skills. There's some good, there's some things I'm you know not good at to say to say it frankly. Uh and you know, in order to get a business off the ground, you need a lot of everything and you need a lot of you know, a lot of hard work, uh, you need a lot of luck, and then equally you just need the full skill set. And I was always thinking like, well, how am I gonna find that other person? You know, all my all my mates are in you know, city jobs or finance or whatever, and they're pretty set on doing what they want to do. Um, you know, there's nice and secure, good salary, there's not really much that's gonna swing them over. And then um, when the conversation came around with Rory, it just worked out perfectly because one again, we'd live with get with each other at university during our second year. So we we knew what each other were like before we'd even thought about whether we were gonna work with each other. So it was a very, you know, it was an easy decision about knowing that other person and what they're like to work with, and thinking, okay, well, you know, there's a good chance that this could work if we both want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah. And it's and it's super nice coming to work with your best mates.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Oh, sorry, um, sorry, Rory, sorry to cut you off. Go for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I was I was gonna say it's it's just really nice coming to coming to work with one of your one of your best mates, and like it doesn't feel like work when you're just having a good time and and working through the problems, having a laugh about it, and not you know, if something goes wrong, you just kind of don't take it too seriously, like there's always a solution somewhere. Um, and yeah, it's it's just awesome so far.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

And did you at any point think, right? Okay, well, I'd I need my name on on the shelf as well. I mean, we've got Sims there, but I'm coming in as a shareholder, so maybe it's gonna be Sims Sims Ben where Sims Bennett Where was there some kind of discussion of how you can kind of crowbar your name onto the shop sign?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Um, to be honest, for me, it's not important at all. I'm I'm very, very happy being out in the in the shadows in the background, just um doing doing my own thing and and doing what's best for the business. Um I I don't need my name on there. I'd rather I'd rather it wasn't to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

It is important though, because I think like in a way that we did have a conversation around it. Like, what does like now that it's not just Simsware, it's you know, but it's both of us kind of thing. Why, why, what does that mean? What do we need to do around that? And I think we again just on one thing on that we've noticed, for example, on social media, when it's when it's like we're we're talking about when we're you know talking about new brand releases or whatever, new product releases, and it's just sort of product imagery around you know, about the you know, of the new stuff which is coming out, that versus when it's us in front of the camera talking to people, it is there's such a big difference, and people I think really uh resonate well seeing Rory and me that like our personal side around about the business and how that you know, how we work in the business and what what we actually do. I think it's uh while the name isn't obviously Sims Benware, when it comes across the way it comes across media and the people, the way that we like to try and interact with people is very much a duo kind of thing. Uh, and I think, well, you never know, who knows down the line. We might be Sims Benware. It's got a nice written.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Rory might just get such an ego, he'll be like, Do you know what we can just call it Bennettware? We don't need the Sims at all. We can change it all. It's when you look over his shoulder one day, Billy, and he's writing out the shop sign and he's got a big X through Sims, and it's just Bennettware in the neon life.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Although maybe there's something shareholders' agreement that I might have missed off.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Something in the fine, yeah, something in the fine print. Um let's talk about I want to talk about life in London as well in Marleybone. Why you set up in Quebec Street? So you mentioned just off mic that uh it's just just behind Marble Arch. I think I know where you guys are. You're uh on Quebec Street, you've got is it the grazing goat on and boxcar? Exactly. Yeah, right there. Grazing goat is literally bang opposite. Yeah, is boxcar open? Yeah, that's it. Okay, because that was closed during COVID, and that sucks because I say to people that boxcar has the best burger in all of London, no doubt. Really? Yeah, that's a big bag. No, I uh well, because so my missus used to live on Montague Square, so that's just behind you guys, right? You've got the John Lennon blue uh Yoko Onu blue plaque, which is now which is now Mason and Sons. But um, you guys yeah, are right next to Boxcar, and they've got a bakery somewhere else around the other side. But boxcar, I think I'll stand by it. I'd put boxcar burger up against any burger in London, really. Yeah, yeah. Right out now, yeah. You haven't you haven't tried it?

SPEAKER_02 12:19

We haven't even tried it, which is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I mean, we've got yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

I mean it's the classic case of like when you live in London and you never eat anything that's right next to you, you always have to travel about an hour to go to the restaurant that you want to go to, but you've got so many nice places right next to you.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Oh, yeah. I I've never even done the London Eye. I mean, and I I can get to it in 10 minutes, but yeah, I've never done it. Okay, well, look, here's something for you. Box car burger and give me a call. Let me know how you get on with that. Getting back to you guys though. Talk to me about why you set up there. Was it was it something that was local to you at the time? Are you are you in the area?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Um, I think we we always love Malibone, I think it's it's a beautiful part of London. It's got kind of good clientele in terms of what we're looking to to kind of target and and things like that. Um and we sort of took a took a punt, really. Like we we knew the area, we didn't know the street particularly well, um, but we spoke to some various different landlords, and and the the landlord that Portman Estates, who who who are our landlord, were super um helpful. They they really bought into our brand and what we were trying to do and and were willing to help us. And they love the kind of British-made element of it, and and they were super supportive, which was a massive factor for us. Um, and they're yeah, they were able to kind of give us a contract that suited our needs that we're not quite prepared to um commit to to kind of a long seven, 10-year um commercial release at the moment. So they've they've they've been super supportive in giving us a sort of pop-up um rolling, rolling model, and um, and yeah, it just it sort of all fell into place nicely. We'd we'd done a pop-up on the Kings Roads um a couple of months before we moved in, and that was a space they shared with three other or two other brands. Um, and we just we saw the success that we had there, and we we just knew that we needed to find an another another place kind of really quickly. Um, so so it all sort of fell into place nicely. The the the space had been empty for a while, so they they were happy to help us out. And um, and it's a really great space. This is we we got them to knock down an internal partition wall, so it's got a huge, nice, um open kind of floor space. Um, and yeah, we've painted it a nice kind of warm tonal peachy colour, which you probably see in the uh uh in in the background, and um decorated it with kind of nice artwork and and leaves, and and we're it's looking quite autumnal at the moment. Um but yeah, I mean I I digress probably a bit, but it's it's just a great part of town. Um, it's got loads and loads of good um the kind of clientele that you get there is is is is what we're sort of looking for, um, as well as a lot of tourists.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

I would also say that the other the other shops that are in are in the area, which I think is such a good thing about Maribel, which draws in the right kind of customer. Most of the other brands around here are kind of independent or semi-independent small small businesses, which just make you know the type of person that's going to go to them is going to come to us and like what we're offering as well. So it's just and it's also it's got a sort of a triple mix where you've got the locals, the people who work here, and then you also get a really good tourist, you know, flow through of actual sort of you know, good tourists, so like you know, American tourists who come to visit, they come and stay at the grazing oak, which is you know a very smart pub, nice rooms, and then they you know they come here and they say British made clothing and they love the idea, they love that. Um, so it's just as an area, it kind of ticks all the boxes for us. Um, yeah, I think we're um we're it's it's great to be here. And then the other thing that as Rose was mentioning is that we've got this sort of short-term lease, but the idea behind that is that we could sort of test it effectively for a year, see how it goes, and then and then be in a position to put it an offer that we actually have some data off of because we've never done a bricks and mortar space before. Like neither of us have done retail, we don't know what we should be doing, we don't know what we should be taking, all that kind of stuff. So it's good to get a bit of data and then use that to make a decision for next year.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, you've got Zed hotels around the corner from you as well. So if people are coming to the area and going, oh, we could stay at the grazing goat, or we could go to Zed hotels, that's actually cheap, but really nice. And you've got Zeta Townhouse. Have you guys been to Zeta Townhouse yet? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

So the um you might I don't know if you spotted some of our i shouldn't really put that much out of it or from Zeta, but we did our half like part of our ultimate shoot in Zeta downstairs.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Nice! Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Is it on the website?

SPEAKER_02 16:57

There is some there, it's not there's not that much because so I shot it and we shot it on a film, and it the because it's quite uh what's the word? Uh sort of polished, when we were shooting with the flash, you there was quite a lot of reflections flying around. So some of the imagery hasn't come out super well. But if you go into like the Cashmere jumper, for example, I think that's on the inside of the Zeta, the Cashmere Navy jumper, um, which is probably just where now you're gonna have to navigate our difficult to read website.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

No, it's I actually really like it, it's a very clean looking website, uh easy to get around for someone like me. Okay, yeah. So you're is that the one where you're in like a mahogany background with a red couch?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Is that yeah, exactly. That's downstairs in the Zeta.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

That's right, yeah. Yeah, good, good. And they were nice. So the thing I had with Zetter, I haven't been there for maybe a couple of years, but what I really liked was the space. It's like a speakeasy almost, you don't really know it's there unless someone tells you it's there. I wouldn't know to look it out or or find it, right? And it's not overly obvious when you walk past it what's inside, but brilliant for like a meeting because it's very antiquated, it's it feels like you're going into a you know a well-kept secret, as it were. I wish, and maybe they might have changed this since. I wish they would have better tumblers for their cocktails. I always found their glasses to be really flimsy. But the cocktails are fine, it's just the glasses are just too thin. Too like I like I like it's I mean, the the cocktail, it's all about the vessel, right? I mean, you could really have anything in the glass, right? But it's how it's the receptacle that you have it in, and I find like their glasses, especially for the uh for the Negronies and whatnot, they they just come in like these really small glasses, they need to be they have more purchase, like something like a yeah, a cut glass tumbler, you know. It's not yeah, it's not too hard to do it. Maybe they've fixed that since I'll I'll give them a break. I haven't been down for a year or two.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, we'll try that out. We'll go for a burger and then we'll go for Negroni, yeah, and then we'll tell you one.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

I want to I want a real matrix port. I want to know if I can come back and re-tread my steps. And it's a bit, yeah. I mean, so I know the area quite well, and you guys do obviously as well. But they're I mean, so if people are coming in to London and like say tourists, let's say, and they want to stay in the area, you've you've got quite a lot right on your doorstep there as well. You're not far from Baker Street, so you have Madame de Swords, you've got Chiltern High Street as well, so you've got the Chiltern Firehouse, you know, where you can find Kylie Minogue hanging out or Orlando Bloom spilling out at 2 a.m. in the morning. Um, and it it's I don't know if it's as sung about as Oxford Street, for example, which kind of runs right down perpendicular to all of it. So you can most people will just flood onto Oxford Street, but not know so much about the little side streets like like like you guys.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah. Um yeah, exactly. It's great. I mean, you've got a really good mix of everything. The fact that you are so central in town is is is great for you know people who are coming to visit, like tourist-wise, you've got you've got Oxford Street there. If you want to go and check it out, you can spill it up and down it. Then you go a bit further along into through as you just get through Marilyn, you get through over to like Fitzrover and stuff, and you get all loads of other nice shops, nice brands. Um, we're in the good part where like obviously we're not in Mayfair, which is a bit you know that bit smarter, but it's kind of like Marlebone and Fitzroy are almost like the ready-to-wear versions of Mayfair, um, versus the sort of suiting in Mayfair. It's quite like smart, uh, you know, Margaret Howells, that kind of thing. Um so yeah, it just seems to be like a pretty nice location with a good mix of food, beverage, retail, and good hotels.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

I almost want to say you did some photo shoots down some of the muses down there as well. Did I see a do you do like photo shoots of the cloves around like oh it's it's not Montague? It's the Muse behind Montague Square because they used to be stable, so they had those old cobbled steps.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

That was in um that was down actually in Pimlico. So in uh a little one down there, but you know, could be could be substituted for it. They're very similar.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

I think you're thinking about when we shot our Oxford shirts, yeah, like Bryanston, Bryanston clothes and places like that, which is yeah, I know exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, those were done in Pimlico, but it's a similar sort of similar sort of look. And actually, when we were doing it, it's one of the things what Portman, the estate, we've been really friendly about, they were the ones who actually introduced us to Zeta because they said, Well, Zeta are in the area, you know. If you guys are looking for some interesting, you know, settings for your photo shoot, I'm sure we can introduce you. So they introduced us into Zeta to Zeta, they said as well for you know, as if we were talking about these sort of muses, they'd seen our photography and said, Well, you know, we've got a fair few of them around here. You know, you'd be more than welcome to use them and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Um you must have spoken to a completely different set of people at Portman than we did. I've I've had nothing but trouble with those guys. You must have got through to a different you must have a different like the secret bat line. Yeah, because uh I mean, like for example, when When when we had the flat there in Montague Square, there's a communal area. So you come in and then you go up the stairs, and we're in flat two. They told us to take the paintings off the wall because we put these paintings up the stairwells through in the communal area. We're like, why do we have to take the paintings off the wall? And they go, Oh, it's a fire hazard. I said, You're insane. It's a painting on the wall. Yeah, yeah. You gotta so we came back one day and they let themselves in, Portman, and they stripped the entire stairwell and even took one of the cadensas out of like this little space. We bought this nice cadenza and they just took it. But like I said, well, you you better tell me whether you put that cadenza because I'm gonna come down there and and uh anyway. That seems strange.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Maybe that's the difference between the commercial and the resie team.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Um yeah, well, do you know what that's a good point? Because they they want they want you guys, they want the commercial guys in there, right? To bring people into the town and make it popular rather than just have it all filled up with residents. So but yeah, you you I'm glad I'm glad that you've had a better experience because it'd be miserable if you if you spoke to the people that we spoke to, you'd be miserable. Yeah, well, I I want to talk about the products as well, as well as um as well as on uh can you talk about where they made uh the inspiration behind the garments and and what people can expect you know when they receive one of these garments from you.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Billy, I'll throw that to you. Yeah, yeah. So um so everything, so that's kind of like what you know, since the start, Sims has all always been about British made clothing. So whatever you get from us, it's all going to be made in at some as in some place within the UK, using one of the you know, a really small heritage uh manufacturer that sort of specializes in what they do. Um, so the knitwear, for example, well the knit the the um sweaters, the jumpers, um the yarn for those is all spun up in uh Kinross, just outside of Edinburgh, uh using Todd and Duncan. They're sort of widely regarded as the you know the creme de la creme when it comes to yarn spinners in in in the UK and if not around the world. Um they're you know used by the likes of Chanel, quite a few other pretty high, high, uh, high luxury brands out there. Um and then they're knitted. The Swedish were also you know were knitted in the UK, uh knitted up in Scotland as well, up in Aberdeenshire. Um one of the things which you know again uh impacted the decision of around the design of the jumpers at the start was because of you know the jumper that I mentioned that started at all, so to speak, the one which fell apart under the arms at the seams. Um during my research, I found that you can get uh there's a type of knitting machine called a seamless knitting machine that knits in a tube. So rather than knitting a flat panel like a scarf, for example, uh, or you knit a front and a back, and you know, arms and arms, which are then linked together by hand afterwards, you the the machine knits the whole uh you know body and arms as tubes, and then it links the arms to the body within the machine itself, and it's all sort of knitted in. And what that effectively means is that you know, sometimes, okay, so when you go to Johnson's A Velkin, they'll have hand-linked pieces and they'll take you know time on every single link to make sure there's no no drop stitch or whatever, so that you're not gonna have any problems with them coming apart at the seams. Whereas if you go to you know anywhere that isn't as you know prestigious as someone as a brand like that, they're just gonna be sort of bashing them out, trying to make sure they're producing as many as quickly as possible. And as a result, you end up getting failures within them. So people miss a link. So it's this tiny, you know, one link is effectively one you know tiny little knit. So you've got to have really good eyes, really focused to make sure you're getting every single link into the machine at the right time if you're doing it by hand. And inevitably you end up getting, you know, links which are missed. Um, and that's what effectively happened with the jumper that I bought. So ours are all done on a seamless machine. So the machine does all the linking itself, which you know, some say might take out a bit of the charm of it. But actually, prefer personally, I prefer to have a product that I know is has been done absolutely perfectly every single time. Uh, and as a result, it means that you know you're not getting any any issues around that. Um, so yeah, the Swess is all made around the UK. We also do uh shirts, t-shirts again from pure natural fibers made up in Scotland uh and Manchester for the t-shirts. Um and uh, you know, there's been something since the start I was super proud of and and love to love to do. It's not easy though, trying to find all those factories.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Yeah, and I guess the shirt making process is an entirely different beast if you're making something that you still want to have quality in a you know, I believe you can you can do a run of shirts, and it's not gonna be the best shirts in the world, and you can keep the cost down. But if you want to have good quality shirts to reflect the companion piece, the the cashmere and the sweaters, you can't just have really good sweaters and then just run of the mill shirts, pardon the pun. So what about yeah? Tell me about the shirts then and the the process of getting those off the ground.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

You know, super I'd say the shirts were uh shirts were super tricky. Um, you know, the knitwear has been the easiest to start, which is amusing. Uh the shirts are tricky because A, you've got to get the right cut, which is literally starting from the basics. So that's bringing together, you know. I'm I'm not a pattern cutter, I'm normal a sort of a traditional designer in the sense of the word, but uh brought together, uh brought brought together like a few different designs that we that are that I liked at the time, uh, taught, you know, worked with a pattern to get us to create the patterns that we wanted for the shirt. Um, and then off of those, do some samples, you know, adjust the patterns, more samples, adjust. Took about three or four rounds of adjusting to get it to get it to where we wanted it to be. Uh, you've then also got to work out, you know, it's the same sense, you know, Todd and Duncan are quite easy to find because they're just, you know, they're widely accepted as the best when it comes to yarn for knitwear. When it comes to trying to find shirting, it's uh a bit more tricky and equally very expensive. Um, because there's obviously so much hand, uh, you know, so many hands in the process when you're cutting and sewing a shirt, it is it ends up being quite quite pricey. Um, so spend a lot a lot of time trying to find a really good quality um Oxford, classic Oxford shirting, you know, in white, a blue, and a and a blue stripe. Um, and manage to get there in the end again through different samples, wash testing, washing, that kind of thing. Um, and as it so, and then we had and then we found a manufacturer up in Scotland who uh it was it was pretty hard work. We were working with someone in London, turns out that they were just gonna end up costing absolutely arm and a leg. So, you know, no one's gonna end up spending 200 quid for a shirt that they have no idea about the brand or whatever. So it's it was just wasn't it was a kind of non-starter. Went to Scotland and they were uh still a lot more expensive than what you pay for. And like, you know, if you went overseas to abroad to Portugal or something, but again, it's they're they were very uh, you know, they've got a lot of expertise in what they're doing. Um, and they're they've been in business for about 60 years, 70 years, and managed to survive through all the difficulties of when everything went overseas back in the sort of what I don't know, 70s, 80s kind of period. Um and uh yeah, so we got we got our sort of batch of shirts put together, which um was super happy with, and they've got a really nice they you know, the people who buy them absolutely love them, they wear them all the time. They're built pretty strong because uh you know the nice proper Oxford cotton. Um they're another really lovely piece of the collection.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Nice. Well, they look they look really good on the website, and uh yeah, I was thinking the ready-to-wear shirts, 200 pounds for a shirt that you wouldn't be too familiar with a brand. And let's just say it's not been seen on the back of Daniel Craig or Matthew McConaughey, right? Or anything like that. So you think okay, that that might be a bit of a steep, but then also you if you go into bespoke and you order like a bespoke shirt, you have to do like a run of five or six, depending where you go. And I mean that could come out round about just about the same price. I think I've got like bespoke shirts from a runner six, you can pay 240 for a shirt, for a single shirt. So yeah, that that's if you were gonna hit that kind of and I guess this is where you come in, Rory, where you go you look at the pricing points and you go, well, what are we gonna be doing here? I mean, for an extra 20 quid, we can just go to Turnbull and Assad and get them done.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, from our perspective, we we we want the brand to be kind of accessible pricing. Um and I mean we are it's made in made in Britain, so we're always slightly on the back foot versus versus some of the guys that that make in Portugal or or further afield. Um but we want to try and be as inclusive as we can. And and yes, our products then then they're not cheap, but the quality hopefully speaks for the speaks for itself and justifies the price tag. But equally, there's some very similar products out there that are charging kind of one and a half, two times the price for for more or less the same products. Um so yeah, I mean a big thing for us is is is we we want people to be wearing our clothes and and and kind of feeling the quality, and and the easiest way to do that is is to be competitive on on price as best you can. Clearly there's limitations with that, and and we have to make the business work, and and we can't go too low because because it's not a cheap, um uh it's not it's not a cheap thing to do as is running a business. So um, yeah, I mean I try and keep Billy in check and make sure he's not spending too much money on uh shirt patterns.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Do you guys have a joint account? So like does your phone go beep when he's like having a bit of a splurge up in Edinburgh?

SPEAKER_01 31:58

We do have a joint account, but it doesn't it doesn't beep, so maybe we should invest in that and I can keep tabs on him a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Like, what are you doing ordering the rock oysters, you goddamn animal? We can't afford I'm here adding alphabet. Thankfully, we used the same one. Oh, brilliant. Listen, um guys, it's been really fun speaking to you. Oh, I oh, I had a couple of ideas just before we go because I've only got a few minutes left. Billy, do you have the same jumper that fell apart, that original jumper that you had? The one that you uh Yes, I do. Yeah, do you have it hanging up in the shop? Because you can use it as like the the journey point, the the touchdown.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

I really need to. You know what? I need to go and fish it out. I think my sister's I think I had it repair like so many times. I think my sister's stolen it because it's actually it's a cashmere jumper, so it wears really nicely, but it's just got like patches, patches like like darmed up and under the arms and all that kind of stuff. I do need to get it in the shop actually to show the people, show, show people who come in like this is what it was.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's it all because it's now getting patched up, it's on the verge of being cool again. Because if it's going through a few phases now, it's it's got its own life, it's got its own journey. Um, and also I don't know why, but I wrote down what have I got here? Hard oh, I I wrote down hard yarns because you said that Billy had already done the hard yards, and what you can say in future, Rory, is that oh, he's already done the hard yarns, and that could be like an option, like a separate label, anyway. Hard yarns scribbling away. Maybe that that's for the uh yeah. That that's your um the magazine that you release or your uh your your new watch label or something. I don't know. Yeah, something like that. Okay, guys, it's been really fun talking to you. Simsware is the place people can go. We'll leave a link in the show notes and don't forget to head down to Quebec Street if you're in town. Until next time. Cheers, guys.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

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