Menswear Style Podcast
The Menswear Style Podcast is a leading men’s fashion and menswear podcast exploring men’s style, clothing, grooming, lifestyle and the business behind some of the world’s most exciting fashion brands. Hosted by Peter Brooker, each episode features conversations with menswear designers, fashion entrepreneurs, innovative brand founders and industry experts from across the global fashion and apparel industry. Discover the stories behind established and emerging clothing brands, from the first idea and challenges of launching a fashion start-up to building a successful international business. Guests share their experiences and insights across fashion design, sustainability, manufacturing, marketing, branding, eCommerce, retail, social media and business growth. Whether you’re interested in men’s fashion and style, discovering new menswear brands, starting your own clothing label, or learning how successful fashion businesses are built, the Menswear Style Podcast takes you behind the scenes of the modern menswear industry. New conversations with the people shaping the future of menswear, men’s style and fashion.
Menswear Style Podcast
Kish Kash, Nik Speller of Three Letters Agency & Natalie Robinson of Style Icon
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This week we discuss everything about Sneakers. We talk at length to Kish Kash, one of the UK's largest accumulators of men's sneakers with over 2000 in his armoury. Also joining us to talk about current and future trainer trends is Nik Speller from Three Letters Agency, and we talk to celebrity stylist Natalie Robinson from Style Icon who lends a female perspective and professional opinion on how sneakers have proliferated themselves into the mainstream.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Star Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And this week we're going to be talking about sneakers, the trends, the movers and shakers, the new entries, the bestcomers, newcomers and international artists, and Christ, I'm starting to sound like Tony Blackburn. And at number 26, it's Duran Duran with Planet Earth. We have a new entry at number 26. From Duran Duren. God bless Tony Blackburn. And we can say that now because he was cleared. We don't have Tony or Duran Duran on the show, but we do have sneaker aficionado and a DJ in his own right, Kishkash, talking about his sneaker accumulation.
SPEAKER_04So just going by what's the there alone, because there's other places that have kicks that have storage and uh and and and uh and then spare room and and other things. Um I'd probably say about two, three thousand, maybe even more. I don't know. But it has it has been something that's happened over a you know a period of time.
SPEAKER_06Kishkash will be first up, shortly followed by Nick Speller, a writer for Buckets and Spades and founder of the Freeletters Agency. We talk about future collaborations within the sneaker industry.
SPEAKER_05So I guess if anyone's out there looking for what's you know, trying to stare into a crystal ball and see what's coming up next, they probably need to start looking towards the running track. Um see seeing what's kind of being produced to excel runners and then see how that can uh filter through into a normal trainer.
SPEAKER_06Nick coming in hot with some crystal ball predictions there. Sadly, our regular female Raquel Marici couldn't join us this week, so she slips out of the top 40, but coming in hot with her debut contribution is celebrity stylist Natalie Robinson.
SPEAKER_00If you have a you know an audience who interact with you constantly and you introduce your audience to emerging brands, um, you know, I think uh that's a great way for the brand to get out there.
SPEAKER_06Natalie, Nick, and Kish all to come, but firstly, a little bit of housekeeping. If you're not there already, head over to the website that's www.menswearstyle.co.uk. There you'll find all the blogs, reviews, competitions, etc. Join us on the social at menswear style and download the app from the app store so you can access all the features on your phone. Lastly, if you like what you hear, don't forget to subscribe in iTunes. Simply punch in menswear style in the iTunes store, and we should pop up. Leave a review or suggestion or email me direct at peter at menswearstyle.co.uk, okay? Let's get this show on the road. Are you ready for this one, Tony? Sometimes you mispronounce things. I do put I do apologize. None of us are too big to apologize. Sorry about that. Duran Duran, of course. Thank you very much for taking the trouble. Uh meanwhile, back to the top forty. This is that interview with sneaker connoisseur Kishcash. Okay, I'd like to introduce Kishkash now, uh brand marketing consultant and sneaker connoisseur, also a presenter and DJ on the All City show for Soho Radio. How are you doing, Kish?
SPEAKER_04Yo, Pete, I'm alright, mate. Yeah, man. It's uh a beautiful Saturday morning. I don't know when this is going out, but right now um it's it's looking glorious out there. Um and it's a privilege to chat to you, my man. I mean, good good connecting.
SPEAKER_06Thank you very much. Okay, uh Kish, uh I was just gonna ask you primarily how many pairs of sneakers have you got in your collection? First up.
SPEAKER_04Oh, croaky. Uh oh, it's not a collection, it's an accumulation. Oh, yeah. Because there is a distinction, because collection is like a conscious effort to go out just to have something. With me, uh i in in regards to preserving it, etc., which is a part of what I do, well what I what I'm part of, or whatever the sort of culture, as it were. But the thing is, an accumulation is is more of a case of I haven't thrown anything away, I've just gone out, bought something that I want to wear, and for whatever reason, you know, I buy some more stuff and then it sort of accumulates. Whereas collection, because there's there's sneaker collectors out there, you see, and even though I've got an accumulation, right? There's there's people out there who refer to what they have as a collection, they're going out to collect it like they're collecting, you know, stamps or whatever and all that kind of stuff, which is all one, right? Um, but for me, um I want to utilize it, you know. I want to utilise it in my everyday attire. Um, so I look at it as an accumulation. Hey, some people might go, yo, Kish, you sound like a bit of a an idiot by trying to you know define it in those terms. But the thing is that's that's that's the honest thing. But how many pairs? I don't know. I've never counted them, but looking at them, say like uh next door in the racks, you can sort of work out uh roughly how many you've got per thingy. So just going by what's there alone, because there's other places that I have kicks, I have storage and uh and and and then spare room and and other things. Um I'd probably say about two, three thousand, maybe even more. I don't know. But it has it has been something that's happened over a you know a period of time. Um you know, you know, my first my first decent pair of sneakers, uh trainers, whatever you want to refer to them as um I probably bought in around 88, you know. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, so and I've still got those.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04I skated in them, I played football in them, I did a lot of things in them, I went to you know, raves in them and all kinds of things. Are they still in their boxes? Excuse me. Um most of them are, yeah. So so next door they'd be stacked up, you know, in the boxes on on the shelf.
SPEAKER_08Sure.
SPEAKER_04Um because the thing is when it comes to boxes, when you look at this is a crazy thing, when you look at the evolution of boxes and the designs on them and the shapes, etc., that's a story in itself. And that's an aesthetic in itself, because there have been some wonderful examples of graphic design, you know, and and packaging as well, in terms of evolution of packaging and from what it's become, just like a cardboard box with a lid on it, into what it is and how, and then obviously sustainability and ethics come into it as well. So, you know, some of them be recycled and you know, out of recycled materials, etc., and all that kind of stuff. So there's a story in that as well, which is which is fascinating. Um, but yeah, people go, You're the boxes go, yeah. And I also tell you what the names of the shoes are, just in case you forget, yeah. Um, and the style codes, etc. All sorts of information. So, you know, you kind of need it.
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, I've just had an image now of like next door, your spare room, maybe it's overtaking the garage. Uh, I don't know if you've seen the film High Fidelity, where John Cusack's going through his vinyl collection and they have to try and figure out how they can label it, and his mate comes around and goes, Oh, you're not doing this alphabetically, are you? He goes, No, no. This is at the time the women that I was seeing, that's how he's kind of figured it out. So if he wants to go and find a Stevie Wonder track in his collection, he has to figure out the woman he was seeing when he had that uh when he had that particular record. I was wondering how do you so how do you categorize your stuff? You've got like 2,000, 3,000 trainers, how do you find anything that you're going through there?
SPEAKER_04Um I've kind of got an idea of where stuff are where stuff is, um, just just through whatever. Um, but generally what it goes down to is the newest stuff is the stuff that's nearest to me. It's like a tree, I guess, you know, the rings of a tree. Yeah. But um I love high fidelity, great analogy, by the way. Um I'm actually a music guy. Um as you know, you as you already said that I do the radio show. And for me, one of my you know, one of the reasons I'm uh my love of trainers is through my love of music, predominantly hip-hop, but um, which had a real you know, real basketball aesthetic in its approach to footwear, you know, with breakers and all that kind of stuff and graffiti artists and stuff. But over here, it uh you also had the sort of uh the co-opting of the look into um more tennis styles and cross trainers and all sorts of stuff, and we love runners over here. But you know, um, you know, when it comes down to you know, I don't know, yeah. It's a good good question, actually. I don't know. Let me pontificate on that one. Let's go back to the one.
SPEAKER_06Let's go back to the one we'll put a pin in that one. Put a pin in that one for now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but yeah, in many many different ways. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's uh yeah.
SPEAKER_06I just imagine it like a bit I just imagine it like a huge jukebox that you can actually kind of just go through like these files and rollodeck through in your mind exactly where to find it all.
SPEAKER_04Well totally, but the thing is, right with what with what you said with the high fidelity analogy, it was quite interesting because there are memories attached to shoes. So the thing is you know, I'd look at a pair of shoes if it if it has, you know, a certain some sort of uh uh you know, it has some sort of history, some sort of I have an affinity with it, and there's certain moments attached to certain shoes. So, like, for example, my first pair of Jordan 4s that I bought in 1989, I met one of my best friends through at whom I'm still a best friend um today. And the thing is, it's because you couldn't get those shoes here, and he and I and he he just joined our school and uh it was like the first day of school, and I was wearing them with a school uniform because they were black and I could kind of get away with it. And uh Juan said uh uh who it is, he goes, Oh my god, yo, where'd you get those shoes? And then he started going, Yo, this is my mate, and look, look at his shoes and stuff like that. It was kind of crazy.
SPEAKER_06So there is that there is emotion uh attached to it, isn't it? There's like nostalgia, like I guess you have with any accumulation, as it were, but I mean there's I think there's certainly more with I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but there's more with trainers and sneakers, I'm finding, than there is attached to a particular shoe or maybe brogues. I don't think people really have that affinity with that, with that. Would you agree?
SPEAKER_04Well, with brogues, for example, um classic shoes, I own a couple of pairs of brogues myself, but the thing is they're brogues. And if you get one made by churches, one made by loaks or trickers or or whoever, there's there's subtle differences, but generally they look like a pair of brogues to the average person. With trainers and and and and uh their design, etc., you know, there's many, many expressions, and you you you know you can explore that with the shoe. Um, but also there's that whole cultural thing as well that's attached to the shoes. So Jordan, for example, was in Spike Lee's film, Do the Right Thing, and there's a significant moment, doesn't it, when the guy gets his shoes run, you know, the guy with the bike goes over his shoes and he's going crazy, he's kind of just bought these, la la la and going absolutely mad and la la la, and it's one of the incendiary points for for for the uh for the events that that uh you know happen later on in the film. But um, you know, so I mean when you when you're looking at things like that, yes, they do have they do have a greater resonance, I suppose, within culture than a pair of brokes, even though brokes are one of the most classic designs of footwear ever. But you know, going back to I think that the reason I I have a stumbling block trying to express how I store things and how I remember where they are, it's just I just know there's no rhyme or reason to it. It's just it's just one of those things that you kind of just just have you just instinctively know. Yeah, you know, there's no conscious I mean got I've got friends who'll who'll put Nikes in one place and different brands, etc. The the closest that I'll go is that if I've got the same model of shoe, I will try to collate those into the the same sort of you know area, so it almost has a genre within the within the exactly, yeah, totally, or an artist, an artist within a genre. Yeah. So say I've got a pair of Jordan 1s, I'll try to put all the Jordan ones together. It hasn't worked out like that due to the fact that it depends on when stuff comes out and and and how immediate it is to hand. But you know, if you ever come round here, and you're more than welcome. Um you know, you you'll you'll see okay, it looks a little chaotic, but it's not. There is an organization within the chaos.
SPEAKER_06Oh, I see. Well, that I mean that's an invitation right there on tape, so I'll certainly be uh taking that up. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Um Kish, I have to say, you came on my radar when I um went to the Proud Archivist. There was a recent exhibition for the 25 greatest sneakers of all time down there. Um I spoke to one of the guys that also was involved with that, Neil Hurd.
SPEAKER_04Neil Hurd, yes, it it was his plan to bring it all together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Uh can you tell us a little bit about how you got involved with it and how um you managed to or what your involvement was?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, okay. Well, actually, it's kind of funny because um one, I met Neil Hurd years ago. I was working at a record label called Wall of Sound um back in uh the late 90s, early, early 2000s, um, and I was working on the hip-hop side of things. Um, they had a sub-label called Bad Magic. So they have Portobello Market outside um, you know, um outside the offices. So I used to just potter around there, and then one day I come across this stall and this dude said in vintage shoes, and I'm like, whoa! And he had some killer stuff, right? And I'm like, whoa, it was Neil. So we just got chatting and blah blah blah. Oh I don't do I don't do retros and la la la. I'm going, nah man, but you can't some retros you can't wear because they've crumbled and you know, or they're not available and they've just reissued them and I want to wear them. Such a puris, it was so funny. So yeah, we just we just kept on chatting, and every time I think it was on a Friday, I don't think it was there the Friday and the Saturday, but you know, and it would have been the Friday because obviously I was at I was at work. So we just have these conversations during lunch, etc. And you know, you'd go, what do you think of these? And he'd bring stuff out and they'd buy a couple of pairs, he'd give me a great deal. I was like, top guy, do you know what I mean? Wonderful dude. Um, and we just kept in touch over over the years, and um, and then um, yeah, we worked on um we worked on a couple of other things. Uh I you know, he invited me to his uh his his the book launch. Well, the the first the first time that we re-reconnected was when Lecoq sportif um re-released the fourth edition of his uh dope book uh trainers, uh which I I recommend everyone should read if they're if they're fascinated by the subject. Um and uh and then we reconnected, then we just kept in touch, and then um uh and then we started working closer with Lecoq sportif, and I'm friends with the guys at Lecoq sportif. And then um what happened was uh crikey, what did happen? Hold on, bro, crikey, my foggy brain, Saturday mornings and all that kind of thing. Um I have got you up early on a Saturday morning earlier. It was a football shirt book, it was football shirt books, so he invited me to that and so on and so forth, and then um uh and then uh yeah, what happened was was that I'd worked previously with Liszt, who were also um partners, but it was it was their idea to do the exhibition. Um and uh I I'd I'd done a few things with them and uh and then and then Neil got in the mix. Uh he was approached by Liszt. And then Liszt approached me, and Neil approached me, funny enough, to be part of this exhibition, which is kind of kind of interesting. Uh, so Neil was a creator, he was the one who was the brains behind it all, and he got myself and Robert Brooks involved. Um, and uh yeah, that's basically how it came about. It was like, okay, cool, Kish, we want you to you know create a room at the back, uh, which is a mind into the world of a uh a person who's into kicks, into a sneaker connoisseur. So um, you know, I pulled out certain different bits from my collection. Well I'll say collection accumulation, gosh, see I'll cut that out in post. From my quiver, you know, from my you know, from from the the the rabble that's behind me. But you know, I mean the thing is, so yeah, so it was it was a good challenge because um, you know, I wanted to represent all the brands, I wanted to represent certain iconic shoes, but then I also wanted to keep it interesting, and then I wanted to you know appease you know sneaker connoisseurs, sneakerheads, and and and and gen the general public really at the end of the day, who wanna you know who want to a window in and not be overwhelmed by uh by you know by everything, and you know, because you can become a bit too nerdy. And if you go in deep like that, then you're you're alienating a lot of people because the thing is an approach with that, it has to be very well considered. So, yeah, I mean, you know, Neil was like, yo, Kish, want you to be part of this, and I was like, Wow, do you know what I mean? Yeah, thank you very much, definitely, mate. As soon as he says, you know, anything that Neil wants, you know, I'll I'll I'll do for that guy because he's just he's just a top guy.
SPEAKER_06He is. Well, um, I had the pleasure of speaking to him and interviewing him about the exhibition um after I went, and it was a really good one. So congratulations on putting a real cool I mean also the way it was presented, like the the the under kind of clear perspects as well, so you can really see the innards uh and like dangling almost from piano wires or cables. It was it just had a very interactive feel. Um I mean people going to see shoes or trainers doesn't sound as sexy, but uh the way it was uh choreographed almost was was really interesting. So well done.
SPEAKER_04That's a great term, yeah. Give uh give give uh um props to archivists for that because it was their their idea to how how the shoes were presented.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's where that came in.
SPEAKER_06So um when I was speaking to Neil about it though, I was saying to him, Are you surprised in the way that people have I wouldn't say it I wouldn't say there's like a renaissance of sneakers or anything like that. I guess people have always been into them that have been into them, but they've seemed to hit more of a mainstream now where it's it's got such a widespread appeal. And I said, Are you surprised that it's really catapulted into this stratosphere? And he goes, No, not at all. We've always been into it, it's just up to you guys to catch up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I agree with that. I agree with that. Basically, because you know, you have you say you have our generation, and we were trainers, and then there was Neil's generation, and he they were wearing trainers before that, you know, primarily for him, um football, and football's another big aspect of my life, and and and the reason why I'm into trainers, you know, you're having a kick about in the street, etc., as a kid, you're playing them in you do it in trainers. Um but yeah, I mean, you know, every subsequent generation um receives an influence from the previous one, so it it's it's an extra exponential sort of uh concern at the end of the day. Um every subsequent generation is gonna adopt mannerisms, etc., you know, and and what they're into from the previous. So we're now, you know, you know, so so many years, not a bit three, four decades into this, you know, it it was inevitable that it's gonna now hit hit a crescendo and it's gonna start tipping over into the mainstream even more than it has done. Especially when you've got music iconic artists as well, um championing you know, the trainer um as a part of their every everyday attire. And then kids, you know, obviously uh you know looking up to them and wanting to emulate them. Um and so in that regard um it's not a surprise at all.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, uh I mean it's it was a really interesting chat, but also that how social media's just taken it and run with it over the face of a cliff almost, you know, because it's I think Instagram has done that to say watches um and certain parts of men's accessories and it but I think it's also just taken trainers by the shoelacers, pardon the pun, and say, right now this is uh this is even more appealing now because people can see it in a format, it's instant, and people can interact, and there's almost a community going on with that. Whereas perhaps there wasn't in maybe ten years ago.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's the thing. I mean, the advent of the internet um and and primarily Instagram in three years is exploded everything, you know. Uh but uh oh one thing I do want to say is that I know I always knew that trainers would be popular and peripherate in the mainstream. What I wasn't aware of was how, you know, and what things would be, what with what what models say and and and the way it would permeate and resonate within the culture and and within within within society as uh as a whole. But um, but yeah, I mean, you know, when when you're looking at when you're looking at shoes and you're looking at the dynamics, etc. Um, and you and you and you and you you can see how they can be you know adopted into modern day life, you know, then it it's not it's not really a surprise in that concern, really. Do you know what I mean? It's it really is.
SPEAKER_06But uh yeah, um, you know, it's it was kind of a vague question. I just wanted to throw a throw a blank canvas over that one. But it was um I mean if you people want to check out your Instagram, I've kind of followed the feed for a while now. It's Kishcash1, I believe, on the end. Um and and you post some really good stuff on there. Uh so Kish.
SPEAKER_04One thing that you know that that that you know that that that that does that I do recall is that you know prior to Instagram, prior to Twitter, you you obviously had the internet. But you what what made what one one of the things that was quite interesting that made me realise that I wasn't you you know I wasn't crazy was the fact that when forums became a thing, right? Now for I remember I was working in a record shop called Mr. Bongos and two of my customers, great people, Russ and Chris. So uh um, you know, used to come in and buy records. Then then then Russ starts going to me, ah Kish, I'm working on this thing, right? And he's explaining it to me, he goes, Yeah, it's about trainers. We know you love trainers, etc. And uh, you know, we we we're doing this thing, and I was like, okay, come check it out. And I was like, okay, cool. Then Chris would come in and say the same thing. I didn't know what they I didn't know what they did. They used to work at a streetwear store called Bond on Newburgh Street, so I was just like, Yeah, all right, cool, yeah, I'll come over to the office. Then I sort of like was just in my bubble working in the record shop and thinking it was the coolest shit on the planet, because at the time working in a record shop was pretty, you know, he's a pretty good dude. You know, it was about sharing knowledge and uh being up on the new stuff, which was fascinating and and and and you applying some knowledge, etc. But what the one thing that you know was like I was just like, you know, and the thing is at the time I don't even think I didn't have a laptop because I mean yo, this this is like late 90s, laptops were like expensive, and right and very, very, very cumbersome. Um and uh you know you had you had you had you know, I don't think the advent of oh the advent of Apple, you know, Steve Jobs coming back to the fore and really you know driving everything. I can't remember the iMac came out, but uh maybe it was around then or just after then, um making them all sexy, etc. But you know, everything was PC led. Um so you know everything was a bit clunkier. But um, so I had no idea about computers. So I eventually go get go around to the office, and Russ had set up a company called Unorthodox Styles, and they were a computer um web design agency before that kind of thing really existed. Um they were building two websites, they were building Building a Spine magazine, which was meant to be a music website dedicated to news, etc., what's going on in hip hop, especially predominantly in the UK, graffiti and all exploration of street culture as a as a whole. This was super advanced thinking. And the other thing was Crooked Tongues. Now, Crooked Tongues was actually a news website for sneakers, but it also had a forum attached with different subjects, etc., and different brands which you could discuss and go in deep, etc. And this is where different users could talk to each other who share the same passion for support, sneakers, whatever. And that for me was one of the things that really sort of, you know, kick-started a lot of things off in the early 2000s. Nike talk was another one as well, um, an American one where everyone discussed predominantly initially, you know, Nike, you know, and what was coming out, etc. and all that kind of stuff. Have you seen this? Have you seen this? This interditions. And when it started, when they started, um, it wasn't like it was now. We're talking, you know, there would be less releases, um, and as a result, you know, the they'd receive a lot more coverage proportionally.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, the emancipation, I guess, would be would be greater, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. So, you know, and then and every sneaker release, you know, would be received by sneak, you know, sneaker dudes, etc. You know, people think they're kicks, and um, you know, there'll be the the whole thing, you know, who designed it and blah blah blah, and then retro stuff, and then then the brand started cutting it on, yo, there's this whole market here that we can actually start you know tapping into, etc. And then products were specifically started gear being geared towards that, um, which was great in some respects. Um, some some of the times the brands wouldn't give back so much to the community. Um, there would be the line that we are a sports brand and we're not a fashion company, which is now I don't think they I think you know the the mantra with the performance side of stuff, definitely, but then they realise there are other facets to their business, um, and lucrative revenue streams. I mean, if you're gonna get make make money, you know, if someone's going to you, I wanna I want to release 20,000 pairs of this shoe in this colour as a footlock I started doing, and then JD started doing, they're gonna go, that's money. But it's we it's not gonna detract from that because that's already doing what it's doing. Yeah, we're going in. So yeah, I mean, you know, back then it was, you know, this whole exploration of shoes, etc. And the funny thing is, like Chris Law, who who was one of the first guys who worked at Crookie Tongues um and and and and and on Spine magazine, basically for unorthodox styles, and now referred to as UDox, is a design agency, and they do a lot of work with Adidas and other companies now. Um he's one of the lead designers at Adidas, you know. Oh wow, yeah, you know, they're they're people who have who've branched off working um for for this company um and have gone into many different things. Chris Alin is the co-founder of Dropdate, for example, um, which is uh you know, uh information website to when certain shoes are coming out, uh, which is great, which is a great resource as well.
SPEAKER_06I was gonna ask you about that, just sorry to interrupt, about where you get your news feeds uh uh when it comes to trainers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean the thing is there's so much out there now. I mean, there's so many websites, there's so many blogs, there's lots, you know, and Instagram as well, definitely. Um but uh things just don't just somehow find me. People just start talking to me about things, you go, you've seen this, blah, blah, blah, and then then I'll just casually be looking on Instagram, etc., and then you'll just come across stuff as well. Um yeah, I mean, you know, uh also I'm a buyer for a footwear store in Newcastle called Soul Heaven, so I get to see a lot of products on that early as well. So I'm kind of a little bit aware ahead of time, six months ahead of time, what what to expect in certain certain in most cases.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So that that helps. Um, I'm chatting with other buyers, you know, and and so on and so forth. And and news sort of percolates and information percolates, and uh so that's how I now do it. I don't generally tend to look at style blogs um or or sneaker blogs or anything like that, because it's just too much noise, too much inform you know, it's too much information, and uh I've got a life to get on with. There's a lot of kids out there, and there's a lot of dudes out there, a lot of girls out there who are so deep into it, and all they'll talk about is sneakers and discussing this and blah blah blah, which I will to a to a degree, don't get me wrong. Um but you know, I I'll talk about music, I'll talk about art, I'll talk about you know clothes, I'll talk about sport, I'll talk about I'll talk about anything really again today. But uh, you know, I try to try to sort of live a full faceted life, as it were.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, well we can't just pigeonhole you into a sneaker accumulation dude. I mean, you know, like I say, there's there's many arrows in the quiver for Kish Kesh. Um, thanks for taking the time out to join us today. I could talk to you for hours, but I'm I'm wary that we've both got to get on and live a life outside of the podcast. And you've probably got to do some more talking tonight, maybe, or whenever you're on the on the show.
SPEAKER_04I've got to prepare the radio show which is every Tuesday night on Soho Radio, um 8 till 10pm, nice little plug there. Um and uh if you if you miss it, it's on Mixed Cloud as well under All City Show, so you can check out all the previous ones out. So hope you don't mind the little plug there.
SPEAKER_06No, no, talk. We'll put it all in the show notes as well. It's um is it soho radio london.com. Is that where people can find more information, yeah?
SPEAKER_04Pete, you know your stuff, dude. You've done your due diligence, mate.
SPEAKER_06I've just digitally researched you five minutes before talking to you, that's all. That's horrible. Brilliant. Okay, well, thanks, Kitch. I hope you enjoy the rest of your Saturday.
SPEAKER_04Thank you very much, you two, Pete. Okay. Definitely, man. It's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_06The enigmatic Kitchcash there. And here is that clip from Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing mentioned earlier in the interview.
SPEAKER_03I'm not blocking my fucking fucking standard. He was never talking about your mom! You got to be quick. I'm out of here.
SPEAKER_06Do the right thing. Fun for all the mother family. Next up, we're going to be speaking to brand strategist and writer Nick Speller. I'd like to welcome to the podcast Nick Speller, one of the writers for Bucketsandspades.com, which is a fashion lifestyle magazine, and also uh one of the founders of FreelettersAgency.com, which is all about influencers and bloggers and how bloggers and brands can work together.
SPEAKER_05Have I described that okay-ish, Nick? Yeah, I think you've uh hit the nail on the head with that one.
SPEAKER_06Maybe you can just uh tell us a little bit about the agency, the the Freeletters Agency, please.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah, sure. Um springing that one on me a bit. But uh we're we're basically trying to help um influencers and brands work together more effectively. Um obviously there's a lot of work going on in influencer space, um, some of it good, some of it not so good, and we're just trying to help um yeah, help increase the amount of good stuff and and decrease the amount of bad stuff. Cool. Um quite simple, really.
SPEAKER_06Nice. Well I suppose my next question leading on from that would be uh do you have any sneaker brands that are gonna come to you and ask for a strategy, or or is that something that would be in the pipeline and how would you work with them?
SPEAKER_05Oh sneaker brands would be a dream, I think. Um to be honest, I think unfortunately it's one of those things where the brands you'd really want to work for are probably doing things well enough that they don't need our help. Um not to sell ourselves short or anything. But you know, my favorite uh sneaker brand is Nike by a mile. Um but they're also an example I use when I talk to other brands about how to conduct themselves in influencer marketing. I use Nike as a case study, kind of best practice. Um what are they doing right?
SPEAKER_06What what's uh what have they got the money right with?
SPEAKER_05Uh well I guess they they seem to put a lot of money into what they're doing, um, which always helps. I know not every brand can do that, but they're you know, they're they're kind of helping influencers out there to create decent content with their product, obviously supporting them. Um I mean we do a bit of work on the blog side, so on the buckets and spades side with the Nike uh with Nike running. Um and it's just their events and things, they're just kind of no expense spared, slightly out of this world events, which just by their very nature leads to a huge amount of um incredible looking content getting up there online. Um they always seem to invite the right people, they always seem to be well prepared, everything seems to be done you know very nicely, and and that just generates a lot of uh a lot of good noise for them.
SPEAKER_06And outside of what they're doing marketing-wise, what about the designs? Is there something that resonates with you particularly?
SPEAKER_05Um I'm quite a traditionalist when it comes to trainers. I think I'm quite boring. Um pair of white trainers, pair of black trainers. I could probably just survive on those two. Um obviously when it comes to running shoes, they Nike seem to be the one who are everyone else is it's not supposed to be a pun at all, but trying to catch up to. Um, you know, they're going for bright colours, they're going for striking designs, they seem to be making kind of exercise and obviously running in particular seem a lot more fun in its nature um than some of the other brands have tried to do in the past, and and those other brands, thinking of people like Reebok and Essex, are kind of seem to be playing catch-up a bit. Um in terms of their you know, their their standard trainers. I mean, I'm I know it was Air Max Week or Air Max Day or Air Max month or something like that a couple of weeks back. Um I've never been a massive fan of the Air Max, just not because they don't of their look, but just because I never really felt they suited my feet. I've got slightly fat feet anyway, so putting on a pair of slightly chunky trainers just makes them look even fatter.
SPEAKER_06You don't want to bring any focus down there.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. It just sort of and it do you do you know you ever get that you feel like your feet are much bigger than they are? It makes you just naturally feel clumsy. You start to kind of trip down escalators and that sort of thing. It's not good. Um, but I have to say, in terms of you know, design and a lot of the work I've seen out there of going through the Air Max over the over the years from the first ever incarnation to present day. So I mean, there's some incredible designs out there, um, some really striking trainers. Um be nice to actually sit down, maybe, maybe I'll do it this afternoon, go through that kind of piece by piece and see which ones are my favourite.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I mean it's uh what I find interesting about like the likes of Nike and Adidas and these big players is that there's now correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be like a a bit of a gulf between like these are the big players and these are where the money's going, and this is what people are really focusing on when it comes to trainers. And then I don't know if there's any of these middle tier guys that are just treading water and to that to maybe the bottom and the entry level trainers that are just doing okay in that market. I mean I mean would you agree that there's if you've stopped a guy on the street and said, name me five trainer brands, you know, do you think they'd struggle?
SPEAKER_05Um average guy on the street probably would struggle, wouldn't they? Think about it. I bet they get they get to three. They get to three. I think they struggle with the next two. Yeah. I guess in the kind of the the circles of people that we know, the the knowledge of trainers is far, far deeper. And I you know, there's people out there who you know follow on Instagram or have met who just you know trainers seem to be their lives and they've always got a new pair every week from a different brand. They could probably name you ten or twelve sneaker brands.
SPEAKER_06Um but it I mean it just seems they have the monopoly on it in in this particular corner of the market that these these heavyweights are uh have have always had the monopoly in my mind.
SPEAKER_05But but they've they've got the money, haven't they? I think if you're a smaller trainer brand, you kind of carve out your own little niche amongst the uh hardcore of fans. But to actually push into the more mainstream, you generally have to be spending millions, if not tens of millions, if probably not hundreds of millions of pounds on advertising, on partnerships with sports stars and that kind of thing. And that just it just doesn't happen for them, I guess. It's what keeps them small.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And I guess also, I mean, I was I was just thinking about this the other day that it's it seemed to be back in the day that if you had a line of t-shirts, if you could develop and design and manufacture your own line of t-shirts, you you were quite somebody in your hometown. Now everyone can pop off a t-shirt printing it for like two quid, you know, it's it's done and done. Whereas starting up your own trainer company, that seems like that will take that extra capital and that extra hard work. I mean, where would you even start, right? So it'd be that more exclusive and that harder to do, I would imagine. To do something.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah, definitely. Why are you thinking of it?
SPEAKER_06Uh yeah. I'm thinking of it, um, but that means I'd probably have to get into running a little bit more than I am.
SPEAKER_05So uh I guess there's so much design involved in trainers, isn't there? Um I guess there's so you know, when it comes to a t-shirt, there's factories out there that knock out thousands of t-shirts a day. Um and even the kind of worst t-shirt in the world doesn't fit that badly, probably. You just could find enough people out there who'd be prepared to wear it. Um when it comes to trainers, if there's a you know trainers have a bad fit, people just aren't gonna wear them because even if they look moderately okay, they're gonna hurt your feet. Um and I don't think men are particularly keen on, you know, I think women go through a lot when it comes to shoes. They're they're able to part with a lot more pain. I think we do go for comfort, don't we?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, no, guys aren't interested in that.
SPEAKER_05Frush toes and things like that. So um, so yeah, I mean it'd be really interesting if I I don't know of anyone who's attempted a Kickstarter or anything like that, but try to, you know, crowdfund some money to then start designing their own trainer in you know, Grimsby or Newcastle or or some or somewhere that's not sort of already got an established manufacturer.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, maybe um if anyone out there knows of such a brand, they could give us a little tinkle and uh email in. We'll we'll give them a shout out. Um where would you go, Nick, if you wanted to find out about trainer news? I mean, I'll I'll just put my cards on the table. I'll just look at Hypebeast and I mean they seem like they release a new trainer every five seconds on that place. So uh is there a hub other than that outside of that where you go, oh actually let me let me find out what's going on out there in the sneaker world?
SPEAKER_05I'm I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I'm inherently lazy when it comes to when it comes to news and research. I look at certain bloggers and I just think they seem to know everything, they seem to be on it. And I don't know if they just read every press release they ever get or whether they actually actively wake up in the morning and spend an hour or two just scrolling through the websites, you know, picking up news and information. I just you know I'm in awe of people who can do that, and I'm not one of those people, so I basically rely on people like that for my my news and information. You know, if if people post it on Twitter and Instagram, I'll see it. If people post it on a some form of website somewhere, I'll probably completely miss it. So so yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, maybe we'll give Matt a ring.
SPEAKER_05I think I think Matt, uh the editor of Buckets and Spodes, is definitely the guy you want to go to when it comes to um news in the industry. Or menswear style, we should say as well.
SPEAKER_06All menswear style. We've got to wet wet our own beaks. So Nate, is there any um I'm trying to think of like trends and stuff that's happening like now that like the trajectory of where the sneaker world's going, it seems like it's come uh I wouldn't say come out of nowhere, it's always been there, but it's just hit a a time now where it's ubiquitous and it's it's so popular, it's kind of transcended coming out of the gym, the fitness world, out of the hip hop world, it's now completely mainstream, it's got it's got its own energy, and I'm just trying to think of where it's gonna go from here. Uh in terms of sneakers or yeah, in in in terms of sneakers, I mean, has every design been done? Has every collaboration been made? Uh you know, what what's what's it got left up its sleeve? Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05Um I think you're right to some extent. Kind of I hate the phrase peak anything, but maybe peak trainer. And that generally leads to, in my view, some some kind of oddities going forward. I bet in the next couple of years we see some strange collaborations as people kind of clutch at straws for something new. Um I can't tell what they might do because if they could I'd uh you know probably be doing a different job. Um, but you know, you get a lot of this now kind of very smart looking trainers, and I can't remember which brand it is, but I saw a brand who producing like a trainer shoe crossover, um which I'm yeah, I'm I'm not sure about. Um, but you know, it's that kind of thing. You can you can see trainers maybe going in that direction, whether that will work or not, I don't know. Um in terms of in terms of whether they've you know done all the designs. I guess a lot of trainer design when we're talking about ones that have kind of emerged from sportswear, which to be honest, every trainer pretty much has probably if you look at running, if you look at the functionality of uh running shoes or gym trainers or even football boots, it's functionality from there that we'll see creep through into trainer design on the high street. Um we were at the new Air Max launch the other week, and you've got this new uh is it the Vapormax with the kind of all-in-one giant Air Max bubble, which is now kind of moved on from just being a bubble in the heel of the shoe to being the entire soul of the shoe. Um and it's you know, it's things like that. I mean, obviously they've developed that for for running, they've developed that to be more cushioned and give runners more spring and more comfort, and you can see that kind of thing working its way towards streetwear, high street trainers, that kind of thing. Um so I guess if anyone's out there looking for what's you know, trying to stare into a crystal ball and see what's coming up next, they probably need to start looking towards the running track, um, see seeing what's kind of being produced to excel runners and then see how that can uh filter through into a normal trainer.
SPEAKER_06Oh, that's interesting because I I never really saw that it would come from functionality, which obviously makes sense and it that's where it stems from originally. But I would always feel like that these companies are more interested in giving this trainer to someone with the most social following and saying, right, can you do something, maybe put a signature on it, and then we'll just sign off on that and make and we'll all make a million, etc.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I mean I guess there will be a bit of that. Um I suppose I've I'm pretty much just parroting stuff I saw on Netflix the other day when I watched the uh the abstract documentary. I don't know if you saw that, with uh with uh I've forgotten his name, the uh night designer, the guy who designed the air mat. Um and that was really interesting because a lot of his designs, while he's putting in colour, while he's putting in you know, design that's there for the looks, that's secondary to the design that's there for the function. And it seems to be something that continued throughout his career, which only finished a couple of years ago. Um so that's that that's kind of where I took that from. Um and it was one of those things where the minute I heard that, I then started to see it in in trainers. Um so yeah, I mean, perhaps you're right. I guess something anything like that would probably have a very limited shelf life. It'll only be as popular for as long as the person who's put their signature to it is popular.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Whereas something that's actually based on functionality would last a lot longer because it's actually got a kind of reason for existing rather than just uh flash in the pan.
SPEAKER_06Nick speller there. And now a word from our sponsor. How much money you got today for clothes?
SPEAKER_01Um, how happened to your feet? What do you mean? These are my 407s. Oh, the 407s. Can I see them?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01These offer a lot of support. Right.
SPEAKER_03Whoa, come on!
SPEAKER_01What are you in a fraternity? Are you insane? Are you in a fraternity? You could have hit somebody. What was that?
SPEAKER_02I'm asking you a question. You in a fraternity? No. Are you Steve Jobs? What? Hold on a second. Are you the billionaire owner of Apple Computers? No. Oh, okay. Well, in that case, you got no right to wear new balance sneakers ever. Come on.
SPEAKER_06Steve Corell and the gorgeously chiseled Ryan Gosling there. Last up, we're gonna have a word with celebrity stylist Natalie Robinson, and she's gonna give us the female's perspective on men's trainers. Okay, I'd like to introduce to the podcast now Natalie Robinson, celebrity stylist and style critic. How are you doing today, Natalie?
SPEAKER_00I'm very well, thank you, Peter. Very well.
SPEAKER_06Excellent. We're talking about men's sneakers this morning. On the podcast, uh Natalie, would I just like to get your opinion basically on what the current trends are with men's sneakers? Um, what is becoming prevalent this scene? What are you noticing?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm noticing a rather fierce uh collaborative um approach um towards um men's sneakers. Um for example, um Nike and Adidas um are known for their uh collaborations, and I think one of the key um uh I would say trends um particularly over sort of yeah, the the current season and and before um was Adidas's collaboration with um Kanye West, um uh Yeezy, and that was their sort of collaborative uh project, which um clearly um you know became very popular and um sort of appealed to um the younger market. Um but for my observation um I would say men from all ages um would sport um you know the sort of Yeezy trainers. Um and I would say the the other uh collaboration is um Nike with um uh Supreme, um Nike Uptempo, um Time Supreme. So you know I'm finding that there's there's more of a I would say um yeah sort of a lot of collaborations um taking place and um you know lots of um you know high-end brands um and sort of you know high street brands um working with influencers um just to bring a sort of a fresh take on on on footwear particularly.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I'm wondering are there any like sneaker brands that are up and coming that can't afford these big celebrity names? And are they looking for maybe micro influencers on a scale, do you think?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, you find that um you know, brands who I guess they're they're they're emerging and and I tend to support um emerging brands through my um uh blog platform, my creative writing. Um, you know, and I find that um yeah they they they don't have the the they may not have the sort of the the the the budgets um you know sort of starting out um you know to invest in uh you know the the the PR and the the marketing because it does cost you know a lot of money. Um however with the rise of um you know bloggers, bloggers, you know, influencers in general, um, you know, I would say there's room for such brands to showcase their collections, you know, through a um you know the the platform of an influencer who may not necessarily have millions of followers, but their engagement is extremely high. And I think that's very important. I mean you could have you know five to ten thousand followers, but if you have a you know an audience who are uh sort of interact with you constantly and you introduce your audience to to emerging brands, um, you know, I think uh that's a great way for the brand to get out there.
SPEAKER_06But we're not seeing any of that though, are we? I mean, in in terms of like the big players like the Nike and the Adidas, I don't think they're really it's not really seeping down through to the bloggers level. They're you know, they're quite happy to have them the main hitters like the Canyon Wests, etc.
SPEAKER_00I agree. I mean, because they are I mean they're extremely established. I mean, for example, um Will I Am's um brother, Carl Um Gilliam, he um has introduced a new brand called 1208 and it's a footwear brand, and the price point is fairly reasonable. Um when I say reasonable I I would say between maybe I think uh 150, 200. So you know, but anyway, but he's an emerging brand, and um he had uh he showcased a presentation during men's collections, and there were so many bloggers and influencers there, and you know that he doesn't necessarily have a huge following, he's known through his brother's work. Um, but if you're sort of again, if you're you know you're you're up and coming or you know, high street brands such as sort of Rither Island, you know, HM, um, you know, they they they they they are I think um uh sort of giving uh uh influences, I guess, the opportunity through their work to to I guess um you know sort of spread the word about emerging brands, I guess.
SPEAKER_06Um Natalie, I'm I'm curious from a female's perspective, uh what your personal pet peeves are and put-offs when it comes to men's trainers, aside from them just being filthy all the time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true. I mean there's nothing like uh seeing someone in a dirty pair of converse. I mean, that's not a good look. Although I love converse, but they are classic. But personally, I I like um I'm a sort of sort of fairly sort of classic contemporary dresser myself, and and I like sort of subtle detail. Um, so I think there's nothing more attractive than seeing a guy, you know, wearing a tailor jacket, um, you know, simple, very chic, with uh you know um a classic white shirt or black shirt, you know, a couple of buttons on down, some you know, lovely jeans, and um uh just a simple pair or classic pair of um sneakers. Um, you know, so I think it's it's good to kind of sort of mix in the classic with casual, I think is uh you know, it's a nice um um attractive uh sort of combination rather than going for something that's like full on. Um you know, as much as I love you know Lubita and I'm a you know I'm an avid fan of Giuseppe Zanotti, um, you know, but some of his um designs, um the high top trainers, they're beautiful um with a lot of detail, and the embellishment can come is is sort of very prominent, and you find that with Lubita. Um so I think personally, if I were to dress uh you know someone like yourself, even though I don't really know your style that much, but I would go for something that is just very classic, a classic sneaker, you know, like you, you know, like um Adidas or you know a clean pair of Converse with a beautiful tailor jacket. And I think you know, I suppose it depends on your style, but that works for me.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean for me, I just never know when really to put that combination together in the sort of place that I'm going to. So like I guess daytime everyday wear if I'm rolling about, then you know, when I'm not in my pajamas. Then uh, you know, putting a blazer and a pair of jeans and some sneakers together is all very well and good, but then if you're heading out to a cocktail bar or if you're doing something a little bit more in the evening, you know, do you then say, Well, I'm gonna I see so many people wearing this same combination during the day than I would do in the evening as well. And I think, well, maybe this is the time to knock the sneakers on the head and then and put a pair of brogues on, but that could be me just being very old-fashioned.
SPEAKER_00I mean, brogues work, I mean it depends on the the the the occasion, like you say, um, but um you could kind of go for some a smarter sneaker, so you have your casual um day um I would say look, and then for the evening you could sort of opt for, let's say, you know, the the latest Balenciaga um sneaker because they are very chic, they're stunning and they're they're dressy. Then you have Lamva. Now, Lumva are known for their classic sneaker, but rather than going for a matte leather, you can go for a patent leather, um, and that will stand out, that would be your standout, I would say, sneaker um to complement your outfit for the evening. So I think you would, you know, there there are so many options on the market to sort of choose a classic, smart, um or sort of casual smart um uh sneaker that's ideal for the evening.
SPEAKER_06Natalie, I'm curious. Um you're a celebrity stylist. Who have you got in your books?
SPEAKER_00Working with I'm doing some stuff with Amy. Um, I mean, she's lovely, she just finished the the the jump, and um, you know, I have um a sort of obviously my sort of private clients, but yeah, she's um I'm doing some stuff with her at the moment.
SPEAKER_06Um how did people get hold of you if they want to if they want to speak to you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're more than welcome to reach out to at Stylicon Nats. Um that's my Instagram and uh Twitter handle, so I'll be more than happy to you know answer any sort of questions based on our um interview this morning.
SPEAKER_06Excellent, great. Well, thanks Natalie. Thanks for jumping on and I hope to speak to you again in the future.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sounds good. Well, thank you for having me, Peter. Not at all.
SPEAKER_06Okay, take care, Darren.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_06Natalie Robinson there. I'd like to thank Natalie and all my guests for joining me on the podcast this week. Kish Cash, Nick Speller, Tony Blackburn. We have a new entry at Daran Darren. I'd like to thank you for listening. Don't forget to subscribe in iTunes and leave a review if you like what you hear. It will help me stay in a job.
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