SPEAKER_04 0:10

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast, with me your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode we're going to be talking about mixology. We lift the lid on what it takes to be a disc jockey. How do the professionals mix different genres of music such as trance, dance, and hip hop? What is a drop? What is pitch control? What is what is what now? Uh, that's not what mixology is. What mixing drinks? Like Tom Cruise? Oh? Okay, sure. Uh so we're talking about the art of bartending, which apparently is the real definition of mixology. We'll be speaking to Andy Shannon, one of London's leading bartenders, who last month was involved in creating the official BAFTA's cocktail collection with Grey Goose Fodka. As well as the BAFTAs after party, Andy also gives away his secret skincare recipe that he says has made him look at least six months younger.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

So I was using an ingredient that was used in the wild that you get more five times more vitamin C than you would from a lemon. I use fresh lime juice, I use a ginger syrup, using that for the idea of the antitoxins and honey as well. Also something you would find it one in the wild and has lots of great properties for your health.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

And yes, so basically it's very interactive, very interesting for the customers and experience, really. Uh, not to be missed at the Cornot.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Lastly, we speak to our grooming editor, Raquel Marici. She tells us all about the origins of the aparatif and why she recommends at least five pints of Guinness for a liquid lunch.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

You go home completely full.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

All that to come, but before we crack on, a little bit of housekeeping. If you're not there already, then head over to the website www.menswearstyle.co.uk. That's where you'll find all the show notes and features and competitions. Make sure you like us on the social at menswear style. Download the menswear style app at the app store. Lastly, subscribe to us in iTunes by typing in menswear style into your search bar, leave us a comment, review, or if you'd like to get involved, email me at peter at menswearstyle.co.uk. Okay. We should say up front, we did try and get hold of Tom Cruise for the podcast, but uh he's very, very hard to get hold of if you don't have his email, phone number, or home address. Without any further ado, pour yourself a stiff one and enjoy this. This is the interview with Andy Shannon, head of bar operations at the London Edition Hotel. I'd like to introduce the podcast Andy Shannon, head of bar operations at the London Edition Hotel. How are you doing today, Andy? I'm very good.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

How are you, Peter?

SPEAKER_04 2:45

I'm brilliant. Thanks for joining me. Andy, uh tell us a little bit about yourself, please, and how you got into the trade.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Okay. Um so I started off uh about eight years ago. I used to be a graphic designer actually. Um was working as a graphic designer, doing a bit of bartending part-time, and started working at a uh a small little bar in Cornwall and just kind of found it fun and interesting. I was getting to be creative but also talking to people. Whereas when I was designing, I was kind of a little bit isolated. Whereas you're in a bar, you're talking to lots of different people and being creative with drinks. Um so yeah, I did that, and then I moved to London to a bar called Caloo Calais, quite a cool little bar in East London.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

I know it very well. It's got that little hidden back room, hasn't it? You go through the wardrobe.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Yeah, exactly that, yeah, through the wardrobe, and then you've got uh a little bar upstairs, which used to be called the Jub Jub, but they've just changed. Um so I was working there for a little bit and then I moved over to the the London edition to um be the bartender at the place called the punch room. So we've got a number of bars. Um we've got the punch room, we have a lobby bar, and then we've got the the restaurant which is called Burnish Tavern as well. And then yeah, I've been here for three years, so I moved from bartender, head bartender, and then uh head of bar operations.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Okay, great. Did you get headhunted for the gig or did you uh go for an interview?

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Um yeah, I I interviewed for it. It was it at that time I was kind of I I'd left one position and I was looking for a new big opportunity, excuse me. Um somewhere that I could actually kind of be for a few years that that would give me a kind of platform to do something really cool. Um and yeah, came in, had a had a very short interview, which is great, and then yeah, started not long after.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Um and so tell us a little bit about the BAFTAs, please. So you did the the cocktail menu for the BAFTAs and you worked there. Yeah, tell me so.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

We we were uh kind of approached as a number of different hotels, um, all with uh a specific inspiration and we had to work with so Grey Goose came to us and said, This is your inspiration. So mine was against all odds. Um and then I had to basically use Nervoka create a drink based on that. So it was really cool. We had a nice kind of brief, knew the product we were using, and then we was able to go off and uh create anything I wanted from that that small brief. So I used the idea of um against all odds and looked at the idea of survival. So my drink used uh pine needle tea. So I was using an ingredient that was used in the wild that you'd get a bit more five times more vitamin C than you would from a lemon. Um I use fresh lime juice, I use a ginger syrup, using that for the idea of the antitoxins and honey as well. Also something you would find it one in the wild and and has lots of great properties for your health. Um mixed that as a drink that uh yeah, it was again yeah, inspired by the idea of being against all odds, but took it more specific to the idea of survival.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

And when you say against all odds, I take it you're referring to the 1984 film with Phil Collins. No, he wasn't in the film. Was he in the film or was he just singing about it?

SPEAKER_03 5:32

I think he was in it briefly. I think that was American football one, I think. Um we were no, it was uh Jackie was one of the films, uh obviously she lost her husband and how she fought against it, and they were all inspired in slightly different ways, in other words, about space travel and how they were abandoned, and yeah, how how you survive in different different aspects of of life, really. That was kind of my take on it anyway. Yeah, they were having to work against all odds, but I used it in terms of survival and then twisted it on another another little bit in the idea of sort of um wildlife survival. And uh the drink was called The Bare Necessities, so I was using the idea of again jungle, jungle book, film film theme, although it wasn't any anything to do with any of the films that I had um my inspiration from, um, and bear grills. So we did the spelling slightly differently, and um we were looking at it in terms of it being bear grills. I couldn't really tie in Raymir's, but uh otherwise I would have probably done that as well.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Okay, so what was the actual night like itself? So you've got the cocktails, you've got the menu. Um, how did it all go? Did it go to plan?

SPEAKER_03 6:30

It was amazing. Um so we we kind of running up to it had to do a little bit of a press. We kind of created this amazing video um which uh each of the bartenders from the the different uh bars and hotels worked on, and then when we went to the the awards it was really nice because we were able to relax, see all the drinks going out, and actually just kind of enjoy the fact that people were were drinking our drinks at a really beautiful venue, and yeah, it was it was great.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Cool. So I mean you I've been to a couple of these sort of gigs before, and normally the cocktails are all there prepared uh in mass basically, so no one's running around frantically looking for rice and going down the off licence to get more grey goes, you know. Um did you have a team of people working under you and do they then kind of farm out the the cocktails as and when?

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Yeah, they they had a team that was already briefed and it already kind of as you say, because kind of batching is a big thing when you when you're working on such a large event with so many people and you want to make sure things are running smoothly, so everything's kind of designed, not even think about it as a bartender. I was thinking about that when I was creating the drink that it needed to be something that could be created en masse and could be created um consistently.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Andy, the uh when I was I because I used to work in a bar, uh actually a cocktail bar down in Liverpool docks, yeah. Uh and one thing that I learned very quickly was that your memory had to be amazing in terms of you almost had to go to memory school because not only do you have to remember the cocktails, but you when you're working in a bar and you're about three or four people deep in a bar, uh you have to give everyone a certain amount of eye contact just so that they know that you're that you've clocked them and and they're at the bar and they're waiting. They don't think that they're just in some kind of disorderly pile and they're gonna be there for half an hour until someone actually clocks eye contact. So how many cocktails do you know in terms of memory-wise? And and how often do you get tested?

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Um, to be honest, it's it works differently at every different bar. Some bars will do kind of big tests on lots of classics. You know, you'd probably be looking at a couple hundred that you're you know, you're you're working around, but lots are based on you know a handful of drinks that are all slight twists on those drinks. Um we test our team on a regular basis for the drinks that that we have, the the the the kind of our modern classics are the our our original cocktails.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

And when you say test, I reckon you call them up at four o'clock in the morning and then ask them to recite it.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Oh well, I wouldn't have to call them, they'd be leaving, they'd be leaving work at that time. We finish quite late, so it's slightly different. Um no, we we we sit down, it'll be on a it'll be a set sort of uh almost like an exam at school, but fairly simple. They have a kind of a pretty much a blank sheet and they have to fill in the gaps pretty much just to show that they are that are aware, and then there'll be further tests when they're actually making the drinks for us so we can actually see them and taste them and see how they work. Um part of what you were talking about as well is you know, it's it's not just about the memory of the drinks, it's the memory of the people and remembering who's at your bar one so that they know that they're being looked after. Uh but also remembering regular guests, so remembering people's names and where they work and what they're interested in, what they like to drink, and that's a big thing, especially in a hotel bar.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Well, that's when you know you've arrived in life, especially, is when the the barman, the head barman knows your cocktail, has your seat, has your glass, knows how many ice cubes you want, what kind of tumbler. Exactly. And I mean, also, uh just to touch upon the service thing, not only is it eye contact and memory, uh I can't remember who said it, but uh they said when you uh go to a bar, you don't necessarily remember the cocktail, you don't necessarily m remember the the barman's name, but you do remember the experience, how they made you feel. Yeah, and that exchange is almost more important than perhaps you know you'd be willing to wait an extra ten minutes just to get that level of service. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah, totally. I I think that's something that can be forgotten in some bars, especially when people get far too deeply into the cocktail, to be honest. You've got to remember why you're there and it's people are out to have a nice time. You want to make sure they're having a delicious cocktail or you know, just a nice vodka soda or a glass of champagne or whatever it might be. But the the the point is it's how you make them feel, as you said, and and that can be by pouring that that that that simple drink, but spending some time and having a conversation, and they'll go away feeling as great as they would have, or even better than they would have if you'd spent ten minutes looking down and concentrating on the cocktail and not thinking about them. So it's trying to remember it's you know, it's about people. And that's the bit I like about the industry as well.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

That's a bit I like, and that's a bit I always take away from any cocktail bar. A, I I like a good cut glass tumbler, I don't like anything flimsy in my hand. Uh I don't want to throw any cocktail bars under the bus here, but there is a cocktail bar that I I did frequently attend, and the cocktails were delicious, the decor was great, the service was impeccable, the glasses were absolute crap.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah, detail details are important, and um making sure the bartenders, you know, clearing, making sure the the area is clean for you as well. But we're we're especially here and uh like the service we like is it's about the communication with the the active guys, you know. Some people people will forgive you maybe um we we use you know handcuffed block ice, we use you know lots of really nice ingredients, but uh people will forgive you some of that if you're spending a bit more time with a bad thing.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Yeah, I I think it's just the receptacle. I believe every drink has its own receptacle, no matter what the drink might be. And if you don't have it in your you know, the designated receptacle that that drink was born to be in and to be drunk out of, yeah, then what's the point? The whole thing just ends right at the death, you know what I mean? Yeah, it just falls in the street.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

It can be an interesting we we we'll sometimes find, and it's it's bad to stereotype, but you do sometimes find uh a guy order a drink, and guys are a little bit more so than women, and they get a kind of dainty looking cocktail because that's kind of how it's been designed, and that's how you want it to appear, and it's the kind of right volume and everything about it, it looks like right. And sometimes their perception of it is like, oh no, it's not very manly, is it? And I'm like, my kind of justification of that is always uh James Bond. That always kind of gets people around to the idea. I'm like, James Bond drank martinis that that's that's that's what you'd call a gaily looking glass, and it's definitely not. So I guess is the nice this is the nice thing that um it's it's all uh objective to a certain point. We all have different flavour. No, but it's true, we all have different things that we like to drink and yeah, I hear you.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

I'm gonna try and remember the ingredients for the Vespa cocktail now. Uh you know the Vesper, I'd take it. I do, yeah. Right, okay, okay, bear with me a sec. So it's the Vespa is three part Gordon's, one part gin. No, no, three part vodka, one part gin, thin slice of lemon peel. Oh, kile uh uh kile lilay, kile lile, but you can't buy kila lilay anymore, can you?

SPEAKER_03 12:58

That's it, exactly that, yeah. So there was a high it used to have a higher uh like quinning content. So a lot of places they still they do lily, but it's a lot lighter. Yeah. Some people who use a vermouth called Cocky Um Americana, so it's gonna be a little bit bigger, which kind of stands up. It's you know, it's it's one of those things, it's just funny when people do come in and they you know they specifically don't want the drink. They might not like gin, they might not like vodka, but they'll order it just because it's uh James Bond.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Yeah, oh god, I'm such a cliche.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Uh no, no, no, it's not, it's it's it's it's fun, but that's part of it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 13:27

You know, you go out and you're kind of trying something you wouldn't normally try, I guess. Uh Andy, uh we've got to talk about, or we don't have to, but want to talk about the award season cocktail menu. So uh just tell us a little bit about that. What is the award season cocktail menu?

SPEAKER_03 13:39

So again, we we have the the drink that each person we created this menu based on all these different inspirations that I talked about before. So mine was against all odds. So there are five different drinks if I remember rightly. Um so my drink, uh the bear necessities, the one I mentioned before, but that's actually going to be going on uh always on our menu in Berners Tavern, our restaurant um at the hotel, and each other bar or bartender will have their drink on their menus as well.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

I see, great, and um uh it's all London centric basically, so we can all find it uh in your hotel, pretty much. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Uh well uh I'd love to come down and uh and try it all out.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

You really should.

SPEAKER_04 14:17

Lastly, Andy, how many times do people quote the movie Cocktail to lines in the movie?

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Not not enough times. No, okay. And do you know how to make a red eye? I do. It used to be a punishment at one of my bars for um if you if you drop something. So if you broke a glass or you uh you dropped a cocktail, you'd uh you'd you'd have to you'd get called out for it. So someone would shout red eye at you and you'd have to uh they'd make it and you'd have to you'd have to sink that red eye. So yeah, I'll be able to do it. It's beer, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 14:45

Isn't a red eye like a beer and tomato juice fused together?

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah, a beer, tomato, spice, and then a whole egg. That's right, yeah. I don't think it necessarily in cocktail had the the spice in it, but it's it's nicer with the spice.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

I I I did something like that for an article and I'm trying to remember, did they actually invent it in the film or did they augment it slightly?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

I think they might have, you know. Um I yeah, I'm I'm I'm not an expert on the film, even though I've watched it a lot of times, but I know I know the drink, but I don't know where where it whether it did was invented for it or not. Good shit. I think a few drinks on when he did the uh the poem when he stood up and he's talking. I think there's a few made-up ones in that as well. I am the last barman poet. Yeah, the last bartender poet.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

The last bartender poet. Or the last poet bartender, I don't know, one of the two.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

The Singapore slang the dingalang. And then exactly. Yeah, yeah. Crikey plumbing. I'm gonna go away and watch that film. Yeah, you should.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Yeah, and then before this gets released.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

Yeah, so I can uh re-edit all. Brilliant. Yeah, Andy, I could talk to you for hours, but you've um you've been really gracious with your time. Thanks so much, and um, I will certainly pop down to the London edition at some point. Please come in and have a drink. Fantastic. Okay, thank you, Andy. Cheers, Peter. Thank you, take care, mate. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you, bye-bye. Andy Shannon there. And now, time for a word from our sponsor.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

America, you're just devoted. To every flavour I've got. What if you want to get loaded?

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Have you ever been in a nightclub where people chant for poems? Talk about far-fetched. Okay, moving on, we're gonna have a word with Walter Pintus now, head barman at the Knut Hotel. Welcome to the podcast, Walter Pintus, the head barman at the Konaut Hotel in London. How are you doing today, Walter?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

I'm very well, thank you very much, and thank you for having me today. Our pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

Walter, tell us a little bit about yourself, please, and how you got involved with the Knut.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Well, um I joined London uh about six years ago um on the research of the perfect job, really. Um basically at the beginning was uh mainly about the language and uh and uh learn a little bit um about about cocktails and mixologist. Uh I had the the luck to to work in some of the best property in London, like uh One Oldwitch, the Ritz Hotel, and uh finally end up uh at the concept as a head barman about two years ago.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

Excellent. Um and what's it like the day-to-day runnings of the canoe? What's your average day like?

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Well, um we're running a very, very busy operation. Uh definitely we do high volume, but uh into the high volume we implement uh um uh a good service, I believe, um a good personality, good interaction with our guests, and is uh is uh day by day is always a good challenge uh to satisfy all our customers and meet their expectation, really.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Okay, so uh like at the start of a day, for example, you I imagine you set up the bar. Do you have a little sit-down with the other mixologists, the other barman, say what we're gonna do today, how we're gonna set up the meetup?

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, well, normally we have a little briefing at the very beginning of our shift. Uh, that's uh normally happens around uh around the three o'clock. So before the shift, we get ready, we get motivated. If there's something too in particular to be delivered, uh we discuss through. Um obviously the mise and plus is uh is something very important for us. So we have uh we have a morning person which uh only takes care of the mise and plus of our infusion syrups.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Which is sorry, Paul, what's the mise and plus?

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Mizon plus is the our setup. So sorry, I'm using a French uh French word.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

So it's our setup, which is uh which is uh pretty much 90% uh of uh of uh of what we do, really. Um without uh a setup, a good setup, we won't be able to deliver uh to our guests. So uh our morning person is uh is the person that uh hands over to us, um updating us for for for all the uh all what's going on in the bar, really. Okay. So it's very important and uh and uh for us uh um you know makes our our life easier, let's put it in this way.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Yeah. So you got three bars there, um, I believe the canoe, is it the champagne bar, the canoe bar, and the coburg bar? Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

And do you oversee all of these bars and how do they differentiate?

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Well, um mainly it's um my uh we have a director mixologist which overlooks the three bars, which is Agostino Perone, I'm sure you you heard about it. Of course. Um well, probably one of the stronger personality in the industry nowadays. Uh he overlooks the the um the whole three bars, um, and and I I just uh uh look after the connot bar. I see.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Uh so tell us a little bit about the conutbar, and in particular, I want to know about the martini trolley that I tried when I was last there. Could you just tell the listeners, please, a little bit about the martini trolley?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Well, martini is uh is something you have to experience once you you come at the connot. The Conno Martini, uh as you might have seen, it's uh it's something very interactive, very personal, uh, and that's uh and that's really the purpose of it. Um we have a selection of different essences, um five, six different flavors that we um we designed and we created the connotes. Um and and the guests uh get to choose one of these essences according to their preference, of course. So in this way we kind of personalize the experience of the guest. De Martini is obviously executed at the table um to to deliver also a little bit of theatrical uh um um scene of it, and um and yes, so basically it's very interactive, very interesting for the customers and experience, really, uh not to be missed at the connotes.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

It's the long pause that I think um is what you're referring to as the theatrics. When you do the long pause and the bottle gets raised above your head, and yet it somehow miraculously all lands within one very, very small.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Oh, yes, oh yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

Uh so what if what I know it's subjective, but really what can you recommend in terms of the bitters and the blends that will go into a martini and maybe like even your personal favourites, but what what do you think people should be asking for or looking for when they order a martini?

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Well, it's um obviously, you know, you're looking for a perfectly balanced drink, um, but um I think the flavors it's uh it's really up to to your taste, but also up to your uh your feelings, your mood of that particular day. Uh for example, um I can recommend a lavender, perhaps if you if you feel like uh uh you need a little bit of relaxation time, um, you know, uh probably a floral uh Relaxing elements would help to be a little bit more relaxed and perhaps after a long day in the office. Maybe if you want something a little bit more energetic to pick me up, you could go for a ginger, which brings a little spiciness, which is very interesting as well. Or something citrusy, fresh in a hot summer day. So you can go for a bergamot or a grapefruit, which uh which brings some uh fresh uh uh elements to your palate. Um it really depends on on uh on the day, on your mood, on your feelings, really. That's that's what makes it more interesting, I think.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

Uh and how many people have heard of the bergamot? Because that was the one that I tried when I came in. And this is a better that you put together yourself, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yes, yes, that's right, that's right. So, bergamot obviously is uh our latest creation um of uh uh our director of mixologist Agostino. Um bergamot ginseng obviously combines fresh uh um uh citrusy flavors, a little bit of hearty and the rooty elements due to the ginseng, which is uh uh a sort of uh fresh uh concoction but also nice and energetic. Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

It is a thing of beauty, and I recommend everyone try it. Um so is the martini the most popular cocktail in the bar? Is it the one that people ask for the most?

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Well, um we get we get a lot asked for a martini. Uh obviously it's our signature drink. So uh people come in purpose to to to try our martini. Uh and that's and that's we are very proud of it, uh to be honest. Then obviously, there are the the classics we which uh are classic for a reason, like the old fashioned or margaritas. Um so the the old cocktail is very, very popular, but as well as uh our our menu, which is divided in uh in uh three different categories, they are all signatures from uh from the corner, all uh concussion created by by us, by our bartenders.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

And how do you curate those menus? How do you decide which goes on what makes the list?

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Well, uh first of all, we we start by creating a concept, right? Um this concept uh has to fit in the in the venue, uh has to fit in in what we believe, uh in and and according with that, we start uh we start building our menu. For example, the current menu is divided in in three different uh continents, uh in which we pick the best uh forgotten classics creating hotel bars. Um those those drinks, um we take those drinks, the original recipes, and we twist it. We we we we bring our contemporary, our personal touches to it. Um and that's and that's how how we we came up with the with the latest menu. Um in a couple of weeks we will uh come up with uh well, we will launch uh a new concept, which uh um I won't be able to tell you about it yet.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

Uh uh.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

But uh but hopefully you'll be able to come and try in a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

And maybe um it will be on your website as well, which will be the oh yeah, so yes indeed. Uh thecanort.co.uk. The hyphencanort.co.uk. Um everything will be in the show notes, so everyone head over to our website anyway, which is mensware style.co.uk, and we'll have some imagery and uh a little bit of briefing news about what's coming up at the Knut. And lastly, how many uh how many times have people asked you for a red eye?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Uh actually it happens for probably once or twice. Um what a week? No, no, once or twice in uh in my 10 yeah ten years of Martin de Guerrero. Right. Um so it's a very weird concoction, so you don't get to ask very often for it.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yeah, but uh no one re no one mentions Tom Cruise from Cocktail or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Uh no, no. Normally some uh some um people uh that uh to cure the hangover. That's that's the only the only thing. Um but for the rest, you know, and again, I I've done it probably once or twice, and I I was surprised, you even me making it.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

So well uh I'll have to surprise you again when I come in next time because I really fancy one.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

You like that?

SPEAKER_04 26:19

I've never tried one. I've I've never tried a red eye. I always feel a little bit too um uh embarrassed to ask.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Well no you you don't have to, so next time I'll make you one then. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

How many times have you seen Cocktail?

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Um two two times, I believe. One would when he I was very young, was probably the first time, and uh and uh second time was uh when I started already bartending, which was about five, six years ago, I think, the last time I seen it. Right. And do you like it? Oh yes, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Walter Pintus there, head barman from the Knaught Hotel. There's been a lot of talk about the Vespa Martini on this show already, so I thought I'd play you this little clip from Casino Royale.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Bring me one as well.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

That's the cocktail straight out of the book, Casino Royale, eventually making its way into the celluloid version um with Daniel Craig, invented by Ian Fleming, who actually took pages from his real life. Um he tried to bankrupt global terrorism by winning a game of high-stakes poker against the Nazis at the time. Um but eventually he lost it all the money and ended up funding global terrorism. Or the Third Reich, however you want to view it. Uh allegedly, I should say. Anyway, uh I digress. Where was I? Oh yes, mixology. Here to get some sexy facts about the etymology of aparitifs is our very own Raquel Murici. We're talking again to Raquel Marici, how are you doing, Raquel?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Hi, Peter, I'm good, thanks. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 28:26

I'm wonderful. So you're out in Milan, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I am.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Okay, uh, you're gonna have to tell me a little bit about the drinking culture of Milan and uh what kind of cocktails are in vogue out there? What's the aparitif?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Um so in Milan, it's a big culture here to after work, usually sort of between six and nine, um, to go for an aparativo. And um, I believe it started actually in Torino, which is about an hour away from Milan, um, in sort of like 1700s. And then the founder of Campari, um the cocktail, the um alcohol campari, um brought it to Milan, and then um in sort of like 1920s, I believe, it became a thing that they would serve it with food just before a dinner. Um interestingly, the word actually comes from the Latin word um aparida, um, which means to open, and um, so they're saying it's the way to open your appetite. Um, some people kind of exploit the aperitivo culture a little bit and use it as like a way to go and actually have your dinner, because in some places you do get like a buffet of food, and it really is that simple that you just pay for your cocktail of choice, um, anything sort of between 10 to 12 euros, and then with that you get like a complete platter of food.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Um I've heard about this actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh and the last trip that I went to, I was hunting these places down, but I couldn't find them anywhere. Are they kind of squirreled away on back alleys? Is it is it a commercial thing?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

No, it's it's in most bars. Most bars you'll find it. It it really does depend. There is some that are really hot on their appellativo. There's a few, you know, you you know you need to know the places uh where to go. And then there's also the smaller bars which just serve you kind of like crisps and olives, and you know, a real a real finger food. But then there's also the designer bars, you know, places like Armani and Bulgarie, and you actually, in effect, you go in, you go in, you leave more hungry than you went in. Um, because you will just get given like a small plate of food and you'll spend something more like 20-25 euros on the cocktail. Right. Um, but it's more of a culture thing, it's it's it's a social thing, it's not a way to just to go and have your dinner. Um, and commonly you you'll have like a spritz um or a negroni, more of the bitter side bitter drinks, um, because they do derive from Campari. So um, but you can have almost any drink. You can have a wine or uh or any other cocktail, like a I don't know, mojito or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

Well, it's open season really once you introduce a cocktail before dinner. Everyone's yeah, I had heard I had heard Negroni's. In fact, that's what got me into Negroni's, was I was doing a restaurant review and they said, Would you like an aperitif? And I kind of said, sure. And then he introduced the Negroni and told me about how this, like you said, uh, is like the unlocking of the appetite to introduce the stomach to uh what's about to come. And I think they said Negroni was pretty much the very first one that did that.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

It is. I mean that's a very bitter, very bitter drink, the Negroni. I mean, I I personally don't like it. It's it's a bit too it's a bit too strong for my liking.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

It's goddamn beautiful. It is it is, it's one of the it's it's my go-to drink, actually, the the Negroni's the cocktails. If uh if you're a London centric, you should head down Bernardis uh in Marleybone because they have an entire Negroni menu.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Really? So just dedicated Negroni. There is actually a lot of ways. In fact, I did a project with Campari a few years ago and went to the Campari Gallery um here in Milan and did cocktail making with them, did a little bit of mixology and there was there was um so many cocktails you can make with from the Negroni.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

Yeah, it's a good base to start from Absolutely. So do you have a do you have a personal favourite?

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Um a bar, you mean, or a cocktail?

SPEAKER_04 32:18

Oh both.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Um I really like it and drink wise, I like an Apadol spritz because it's done with Apadol, which is not as not as strong as a Campari. Um and then mixed in with that is um, I believe, in fact, I'm not 100% sure, soda and um prosecco. So it's a bit sweeter. Yeah, you're right. And that's really nice in the summertime when and it's refreshing. Um places uh in Milan. Um there's a place called Fonderie Milanese, which is in the south of Milan, sort of near Navilli, which is where the canals are, and which is tucked away and it looks like an industrial estate, but it's you you have the best aquatico there. You actually don't you go home completely full. You it I use it as my dinner. Um and it's got a nice little garden out the back, it's quite a rustic place. Um, and also there is um Barbaso, which is the oldest bar in Milan, and the way they make the um Negronies there is that they're in huge glasses because when they first started making them they had the ice cubes to put in there, but the ice cubes were made really big and they had no way of cutting the ice cubes. So instead of being able to cut the ice cubes, they made the glasses bigger. So these glasses are huge and they're really heavy, but it it's all part of the experience, and you know it's a really old bar, so that that's a nice place to go as well.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Fantastic, brilliant. Raquel, uh, I'm I'm anchoring for a drink now. I'm actually celebrating. I'm gonna have to uh raid my dad's uh drinks cabinet, I think. Again.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Well, enjoy that one.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

Excellent. Okay, great. Thanks, Raquel. Speak to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Cheers, thanks, babe. Thank you, Raquel Marici, and thank you to all of our guests this week. Walter Pintus, Andy Shannon, and thank you for listening. If you do like what you hear, do subscribe, tell a friend, leave a comment. It all helps and it will help me uh stay in a job.