SPEAKER_04 0:12

Hello and welcome to another edition of the Men's Wear Style Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode, we're going to be talking to the cast of the film and TV series, This Is England. We're going to be speaking to the show's protagonist, Thomas Turgus, who played Young Sean.

SPEAKER_10 0:29

I was stood at the bar and I was just about to get the innovative pint, and some guy came up to me and he poked me in the ribs really hard.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Right.

SPEAKER_10 0:35

And I turned round and he went, Oh, you're that kid from this is England, aren't you? Well, yeah. I try trying my hardest to bite my tongue. He's just come up to me and poked me in the fucking ribs. That's not how you get someone's attention, is it?

SPEAKER_11 0:47

No.

SPEAKER_10 0:48

And I was like, oh whatever, sort of bit me tongue. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he never asked me for a photo, and then I went down and sat down in the pint, and he he was talking to all his friends for about 40 minutes around the pool table, and I was sat down and met having a pint and my food turned up. And just as my food turned up, he came up to me, poke me in the ribs again and said, give a picture then. I was like, ah, you little prick. I never said that to him, but I was like, I was like, my fuck you've been stood looking at me for 40 minutes, and my food's just got you, and now you've done that.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Yeah, awesome. Thomas will also be telling us about his upcoming DJ set down the garage in Highbury and Islington this day. That's the 10th of December, for those who are catching us during the week. It's part of a Lifted England club event celebrating the music from the film and TV series with cast member DJ set visuals and decor. You can also catch it down the garage at Saturday. Head over to thegaragelibrary.com for more details. Amongst other stuff, Andrew's also going to be telling us about how important the factor was in the film. What were the attitudes and the response of the brands after the film came out? Were they knocking on your door, giving you a phone call, dropping off an entire wardrobe at stock?

SPEAKER_07 2:01

No, nothing like that after the film. I really wish they were.

SPEAKER_09 2:06

That's that's not ever happened really. I mean a few can none of the big brands in the film have have ever done that, which is strange. Um but uh more recently uh others do now, which is which is always lovely.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

That interview coming up shortly. Also, before we crack on, however, a little bit of housekeeping. If you want to head over to the website and check out all the interviews and features, it's menswearstyle.co.uk. There you'll find all the information from the show and the competitions that we run every month. You can also download the menswear style app from the app store. You can follow us on the total app menswear style. Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to us in iTunes and if you could leave us a lovely file style review, that will be Fantastic. Okay, so let's get this show on the road. Okay, well let's do it. Here's the interview with Thomas Hergus. Firstly, if we can speak a bit about This is England, uh the show that I've been binge watching for the last couple of days. So it's very fresh in my mind. I saw the film um probably a couple of years ago, the one that was in 2007, I think. This is England. Um loved the film back then, but famously never caught onto the TV series. Uh but that's all that's all done now. I'm I've I've done with the TV series, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 3:31

Yeah, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 3:32

I thought it was amazing. Well, uh the I was I watched the film and then pretty much went straight into the TV series. Couldn't wait. That opening scene where you're there with um Stephen Graham just in the docks and he's explained to you, look, I've I've essentially screwed up. It's that huge cliffhanger of not really knowing where the film was going to go into the TV series, because at the end of the film you're throwing the flag into the sea, you're kind of being disillusioned with what your identity is with England, I suppose, and what it all means to you.

SPEAKER_10 4:01

It was sort of a thing where Shane sort of because we are like these, you know, you have like your group chats and you speak to people, and then you know, I think we were speaking to maybe Andrew Ellis or or sh or Andrew Shane who's like okay. And it was like, Oh, you're fucking like Am I allowed to swear by the way?

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Yeah, go for it, yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_10 4:18

Yeah, yeah. Um and it was like, Oh, you like apparently it's a shame I'm back like in this film into a TV series. And everyone's like, What? Like it's a bit a bit mad. And then we got this phone call um from Warp Films who produced a film, um, just saying, Will you come up to Sheffield and just have a meeting, um, all of you together and sort of brainstorm ideas, see what everyone's been up to. Um, and we were all just sort of a bit like, wow, this actually might be happening. Um and it yeah, it was uh it was sort of it was it was a bit of a mad thing, and and we sort of had these meetings and I can remember when I I was on the way home from Scotland, I think it was Glasgow. Um yeah, it was Glasgow because it was on my 18th birthday. Um and I got sent the scripts, and then I see these scripts for this is in the 86th like an email, and I was like, wow, this is like it's actually happening, and you know, and it was such a weird thing to be reading the scripts um of a TV series of a film that we'd already made um that changed all our lives and how we all loved each other's bits and and just the thought of going back to do this again was amazing. Um and then yeah, it's sort of just sort of some of the stories that you read in the script though, like the you know, like I remember I was on reading um and I was reading the scenes between Johnny Harris, who plays Nick, and Vicky McCallow plays lol. Um I'm guessing you all know what scenes are on about, and I was just reading it and I was like, wow, like that that's insane. You know, obviously the script a lot of it's improvised, so you can never sort of picture how Vicky and Johnny are gonna do it, but sort of the idea's there and it's just like Jesus Christ. Um and it was just a game changer, like Shane had done it again, like he'd written this he's had these amazing ideas and and yeah, and it happened again for eighty six and then again for nine for for eighty eight and then ninety. It's just sort of Yeah, I don't know, it's a weird one. Okay, and then when when you get them scripts when it says this is in the 86 or this thing in the 80s or this thing in the 90, it's sort of um it's not like receiving any other script. You're so excited to read it, like you just you don't know what you're gonna come up with.

SPEAKER_04 6:22

There was no way that there wasn't gonna be a sequel of sorts, so I looked it up and I think it was about 1.5 million to make and then maybe it grossed about 95 about 95 million at the box office. So they're not gonna leave any money on the table. Yeah, according to a bit of research, a bit of IMDB.

SPEAKER_10 6:38

Right, that's what it's in the made. I'm being underpaid over, are you?

SPEAKER_04 6:41

I was about to say how come you can't afford that cleaner.

SPEAKER_10 6:44

I know, yeah, I had to go work I had to go work in the pub after that. I'm being I'm doing robbed here, aren't I?

SPEAKER_04 6:50

Well, uh this is I'm only doing uh I I researched it fastidiously for five minutes on IMDb, so uh you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 6:58

I've been ringing Shane after this given banjo has just told me I'm 20 minutes bastard.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

I want some.

SPEAKER_10 7:05

No, um yeah, yeah, no, it's but none of us care about that. No, we all we're we're buzzing about the opportunity that we've got. And you know, we've I've been fortunate enough to to buy new announcer at 2020 when I miss it when I miss it, and it's like if it weren't for fucking Shane and it and it weren't for this single, I wouldn't have been able to do that. And uh yeah, and it's and there's some of the things that we've been able to do off the back of it, you know, the travelling around the world and just the amazing opportunities that that that that job has given us is you know, you just sort of can't put it into words really.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Yeah. Well um how was it? I mean, so how old were you when you did the film This is England?

SPEAKER_10 7:44

I was thirteen. Thirteen film. So yeah, so it's what was I saying? Yeah, 13 when we made it and 40 when it was released. Right, okay. Yeah, ten years ago.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Now take this um with the spirit that's intended, Thomas, but it must have been quite a relief for the directors and everyone else involved when it turned to the TV series and they could properly see you act, like you had some proper range. I mean I guess when it comes to like child when I watch um young actors in films I'm just wondering, is that them acting or is that them just being a kid? But then when you um yeah when you're in the TV series and I see you charge in on your mum and she's in bed with Mr. Some some dude and uh you then kick off, I feel like, ah, brilliant, that's fantastic. This guy is actually really good at acting.

SPEAKER_10 8:27

Yeah, um it was a weird thing. I mean I was wondering for for the film it was sort of uh it was like a mad trance on set. Shane and say this but Shane's got this amazing way of manipulating, yeah. He's he does artfully, he's very art artfully um manipulate it in sort of a strange way that any other director probably wouldn't do. But that's why Shane gets the best performances from all of his actors. You know, when I was a kid he he manipulated my mind and the same way Combo's beating Milky in the room, um, and I'm under the cult and I'm in the cupboard, Shane had said to me that he said, Can you can you please get your head on for this? Because I'm Andrew Shim, who plays Milky's In there getting beat up by Stephen. He said, and the more you know if if you can't can you please get your head on with it basically and don't be messing around like you normally are on set and and things like that, because the more you mess around, the more Steve Stephen's gonna have to kick fucking out of Shimmy. And I was like, So it's so in my head, and I I Shimmy's always been one of my best mates from from meeting him from day one to now to to seeing him nearly every weekend and you know, so Shimmy's one of my oldest friends and sort of knowing that Stephen was in there doing that to my mate, it was like it was heartbreaking, so it's all real, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 9:44

But then then as you get older and you sort of learn I learnt the industry. So when you got onto a when I got into eighty eight and when I got onto nineteen eighty six, um I knew that that one I knew that things like that didn't happen, I know it was all play.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Right.

SPEAKER_10 9:56

Um so yeah, I suppose in a way it was it was it was it was sort of yeah, it's I mean it was it was all sort of natural for the film. I know you know, because I was so young it'd be difficult to get something like that from a child who understood it, you know what I mean, like maybe a trained actor. Who knew that you know that that Shimmy wasn't actually getting beaten up, you know, it might be a bit more difficult. So Shane did this amazing amazing technique, which emotionally fucked me up for days because I thought Shimmy was getting beat up, you know what I mean? So it's like but I suppose for the for the film and for for for what it are what it is now and how it got received, it's so it's all worth it in the end, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 10:37

I mean it's that was such a heartbreaking scene in so many ways, not only because uh did um Milky uh yeah get fucked up, but also that moment before he does where you can smile at him and just see through him and go, Oh, I've got you now, I can see right through you. But that's also the downfall of combo as well, because you feel you're championing him up to that point. You feel like he's turned a corner you know, embraciating different cultures and religions, and then just at the death he just goes, I'll fuck all that, I'll go back to being a a blinker diddy.

SPEAKER_10 11:08

Yeah, that's just but it's just amazing how they both did that and they then mentioned so Jimmy, like he didn't even have to say a word in that scene really, did he? No, no, no. And you could just see him a look and you could see it. Yeah, yeah, and it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

Um it was almost hard of watching that second time round because I knew exactly what was gonna happen, so it was you know, I was leading up to that and thinking oh this is gonna be.

SPEAKER_10 11:29

Yeah. To be honest, I haven't watched the film for about seven years. Oh really? Wow. It's good, mate. I haven't watched it for such a long time. I started watching I started watching 90 again. Um because night was so much, so, so much fun to film for for a lot of us. You know, a lot of the partying and the raising. Um and I was sat here one Sunday afternoon hung over feeling sorry for myself. And I was like, oh fuck it, I'm gonna put I'm gonna put 90 on and sort of really the fun that we had. Um and I don't know, I find it strange to watch. As much as we look doing it, uh uh and as much as we all love flame in characters, it's weird to watch. It's just it's kind of strange when to sit and watch now and um yeah, I don't know, it's a bit strange.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

Yeah, uh yeah, it must be really strange watching yourself. And also I that scene when you're having a rave in the field uh in this is ninety.

SPEAKER_10 12:19

It was such an amazing thing, like, because they wouldn't let us see the um the camp that they've made. They um they so they've made that and they've got loads of like real um sort of pagans in and and it was like a pagan festival, that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Right.

SPEAKER_10 12:33

Um and they wouldn't let us see that set until it revealed to us um on screen. And Shane and just said to us, he said, me he he never knew about this, but me and my me and a couple other lads we all got, you know, before we went to we got pictures to go to work, we went to pick up vodka. We thought we knew what we we knew we were having a party, so we thought fuck it, we won't tell anybody. Sat in our trailers and got a bit tanked up and just said like Shane just said, he just said, You go out there and have a fucking party and have some fun and experimenting weird shit, see what happens, and I might grab you at at one in the morning and say, just come do this scene, just do or he'll he'll set things up and he'll say to someone, just go hide into toma and start this conversation and see what goes on. Um and he just shot around us having a party and it was sort of by the end of the night, I remember we were all sat there with a guitar, um, and we was all just singing, just jamming, and just having a laugh with a bottle of beer, and sort of when they said, Oh, that's it, we've rats and glow now, everyone was like, Oh, good. You know, he was having such a good night doing it. Um, yeah, it was good, it was brilliant. And that that's that's why Shane makes that's why everything looks so you know, sort of genuine and so real, because he makes he makes life on set and makes work fun for us. And you know, it's fun anyway, in it, for anybody any actor tell you that we we've got the easiest job in the world. But you know, sometimes you can be a bit strenuous, but Shane never it's never strenuous for Shane.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Well that's why for me it looked really organic and that particular scene didn't look like it was set where Shane would have said, right, we've only got two hours in this location, um, you know, we've only got something.

SPEAKER_10 14:09

Shane gets as long as he wants.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Yeah, exactly. So uh it felt like you had all night and that gave the actual scene some breathing space almost. You could actually feel the process of getting on the room.

SPEAKER_10 14:18

Yeah, so we was we did a split day, so we started at like ten in the morning till maybe ten at night. And then we went back to the hotels and got picked up at 2 a.m. and went till eight a.m. or nine a.m.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 14:32

Um so it was sort of like a fucking long day. So suppose people I when all my mates say, Oh, you've never done a day's work in your life.

unknown 14:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 14:40

I'm like, oh you fucking don't know, you bastard. Being up in the woods for fucking like 24 hours. Yeah. Um but yeah, no, it was it was long days. Um but you know, Shane he gets as long as he wants on his on his locations, and you know, it it it must be stressful. Well, I can you can see Mark Herbert who produces it getting stressed sometimes, thinking, shit, I don't know what I'm gonna do in here. But Shane, he trusts Shane and he'll do anything in his power to help Shane get what he needs on set.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 15:07

So what you need on a film set, you need a lot of trust. Trust in everybody, trusting the director, trusting your your runners, trusting your your your ADs, your cameramen, your actors, everybody. I think you just need a a like a yeah, massive trust in each other because you know, once someone one person gets a vision, it's down to everybody else to help them get it, I think. Yeah, it's it's a strange thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

It's also quite interesting how the series has documented. It's almost like a running commentary for the years that they were on. It doesn't just solely focus on football, it doesn't just say look this is what the World Cup was doing. It kind of hints and there's a little subtle flashback, you know, you might be watching it in front of the telly. But the the introductions I thought were great when I watched it and it was Davis beating Griffith in an 88 final or something. I thought, do you know what you could have just cut that just right there and I would have got it? I'm like, that's it, that sums up the 80s for me, is Davis. Um Yeah. Um but also how like the clothes obviously played a huge part with uh the the Skinhead movement, uh the Ben Sherman's and the Dr. Martins.

SPEAKER_10 16:06

I never really knew anything about it, and the more I learnt on set day to set days by listening to the music that everyone was listening to, and but you know, just on set would you would have you know we'd have a bit of reggae lasting out all day, and you know, people would just be just be relaxing and just just being being themselves, and I sort of picked everything up as it went along, which is what Sean does in the film. Um so it sort of all just came natural.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

But and I I spoke to um Andy Ellis as well after I think yesterday, and I said, Did they give you any of the clothes? Did Fred Perry get in touch afterwards and kit out your wardrobe? And he goes, Nah, I haven't seen anyone. No one's dropped a thing on mine.

SPEAKER_10 16:44

No, they never really did. I mean me and me and me and um gadge was quite lucky. We did a um we did a DJ set for the new Fred Perry shop in Covent Garden. Ah, okay. Um so that's the only really that's the only excuse me. Um that's the hell to remember That's sort of the only in bit that we got with Fred Perry, and you know, now we get sent little bits, but it was only after that fucking ten years after the film when we did the CJ set for them that we sort of they started sending us little bits. But you know, it's one of them.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

It's like a long time coming though, I can get three. Well, I I said to Andrew, I think it must be the uh the lack of social media back in like ten years ago, not being able to post a picture of you wearing a Fred Perry polo at the time must have had a huge I'd say it's such a weird thing because I still feel like I'm really young and I still feel like I'm learning it every day on on set and I still feel like I'm new to it all, but then I look back and I'm thinking, fucking hell, I've been doing it for ten years.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 17:43

And I've seen change massively in the film industry. Like even down to you know, like the auditioning process now, it's sort of you know, it it's not you don't I can remember when I went for an audition and before I even got home, it was this audition uh auditioning in Manchester and before I even got home, I got the phone call saying, Oh, you've got the part and I was like, fucking hell, this is amazing. I want to do this for the rest of my life, it's this easy. And then now it's sort of got to that point where if you if you're auditioning for an American film or or for anything, it's not it's not straightforward now. You've got to audition for the casting director, and you've got to travel up to London, you've got audition for the producers, and then you've got to do this, and then you've got to do that. And it's sort of a lot harder now to you know, uh I I d uh maybe I've sort of I don't know, I I sort of feel like I've been a bit typecast now.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Yeah, I was gonna ask about that. I mean, do you I mean I guess a lot of people recognise you from the programme and the film and how much do you feel like oh that's good that you've you're watching it, but you know, after ten people catch me at lunchtime, can I move on?

SPEAKER_10 18:43

You you won't believe, like, as much as we we're all blessed to be part of this is England, we love what was done and we're so grateful for Shane. Um but I was with um Vicky McClaw who played lol in Belfast um over the last couple of weeks, um, and we went for some food and we both agreed that it's the best show in the world, but it's also the This is England Curse, where we're so recognizable as these characters, and we've all grown up with these characters, it's sort of become a bit like a soap, you know. Like you see, Sam Askin is a friend of mine who plays Chesney in Coronation Street. Um he he's been playing Chesney now for a long, long, long time. Um and now he's gonna really struggle to get out of that because he's grown up with that, and that's what all casting directors know him as, and that's what all public know him as. And I'm I'm in the same same boat. It's sort of like I I I've been playing that character for so long now, you know, as as much as I love being shown for Mrs. England and getting all that, it gets to that point where it's like I really I'd I'd love other people to come up to me and and you know, know it's all the work that I've done and and that's what I'm trying to work really hard towards now. You know, I'm 25 now and and and I really you know, I really want to crack on with it and I want to get my head on with it and you know, getting send some really good scripts and my like my next aim is to do something so people come up to me in the street and go, Oh, that's a you're in that so-and-so, and not, oh it's children, you know, go for your doing jups, you know, which is what I always get and it's sort of yeah, I don't know, it's a strange it's a strange thing to experience because you've grown up with it for so long.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

I imagine it must be um well, a bit of sweet feeling, I mean, to be appreciative of having the having the chance and all that sort of stuff, but then you really want to know what's around the corner and um get your career's.

SPEAKER_10 20:25

I'd never in a million years changed anything that's happened to me over the last ten years because it's been a fucking roller coaster of amazing things have happened, you know, you've had the best days of your life, you've had the worst days of your life. And I wouldn't change it because it makes you who you are as a as a person, but I would I would love to see what that what's round the corner and I would love to maybe shake it off for for a little while, which I know is gonna be difficult if we keep going back to it and making more series and so it's sort of yeah, it's um it's a di it's a difficult one to to to put yourself in, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

I remember um seeing an interview with David Schwimmer who played Ross from Friends, and he was always quite fucking h he was quite um welcoming with people that would say, Look, can I get a picture or can I get an autograph? And he would go, Yeah, that's fine, that's absolutely fine. And then he'd be in a restaurant and uh someone would go, Hey, can I get a picture? And he'd be like, Well, I'm actually having some food with my friends, so this is a good one.

SPEAKER_10 21:13

Yeah, it happened to me in Leeds the other week in a bar called shooting for me. I was stood at the bar and I and I was just about to get me in the night of pint, and some guy came up to me and he poked me in the ribs really hard.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Right.

SPEAKER_10 21:23

And I turned round and he went, Oh, you're like kid from Mrs. England, don't you? I went, Yeah. I'd try trying my hardest to bite my tongue. He'd just come up to me and poke me in the fucking ribs. That's not how you get someone's attention, is it? And I was like, Oh, whatever, sort of bit me tongue. I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he never asked me for a photo, but then I went down and sat down with a pint and he's he was talking to all his friends for about 40 minutes out around the pool table, and I was sat down at night having a pint and my food turned up. And just as my food turned up, he came up to me and pointed me in the ribs again and said, Give a picture then. I was like, Ah, you little prick. I never said that to him, but I was like, I was like, my fucking you've been stood looking at me for forty minutes. My food's just got you and now you've done that.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 22:02

Still to this day think you did it on purpose, but I'm like, oh fucking mine craft.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Yeah, we should uh we should. Well it's you know, um you got to be.

SPEAKER_10 22:15

But I've always I'll I'll never say no to anybody, you know, under any circumstances, because again I know how lucky I am to be on the phone to you doing interviews and uh about about what I've been given and things like that. So you know I I really do appreciate everything and anyone who comes up to me. What I do always say, and what my dad's always said to me, is you you you've been given this opportunity, and the people who come up to you have sat and watched an hour of the film, four hours of listening at 86, to two or three hours of eighty-eight, and then four hours of ninety. So, you know, that's fifteen, sixteen hours that they've sat and watched what you've done. So what's five minutes of your time? You know, it's like you can sit and speak to them and uh and give them your time like they've given you their time, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Yeah, it's quite philosophical. I guess it's just a way, isn't there, of doing it and uh and a time.

SPEAKER_10 22:59

There is, yeah, like it's it's you know, I'd never got to someone while they're eating. I can remember I was I was at um V Festival, you know, this is um and we see Dynamo and I lost my shit. I was like, fucking hell, dynamo still there, but he just sat down with burger and I was like, I don't want to go up to him and say, you know, hello and do some fucking magic while you eat your burger, you know. So I sort of left it. I was like, I didn't want to interrupt him on his weekend.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 23:22

But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Cool. Um so what you got coming up? I know you're playing this DJ set down in uh down at the garage. Can you tell us a little bit about the night?

SPEAKER_10 23:31

Yeah, well this is England night sort of um it we've sort of made it it's an official night now, which is you know, it's sort of become you know, it it's sort of it's more about you know, more about the film and the series instead of, you know, us just doing the DJ set. Um and I think the thing that we want to do um is sort of just bring back the old nightlife. Like not that I knew it, but you know, I think I've I've I've lived it with doing the series and and how much, you know, how much love there was about and how happy everybody was and we want people fucking doing massive bombs of MDMA and fighting. You know, it it's sort of everyone to put their arm around each other and sing to a song that everyone loves and you know, and that's sort of what we try and create with with the This is England nights and you know, and and I do a lot for propaganda and it's the same for that. You know, you put a song on that everyone loves. Because I love doing it, if I'm in a pub and a song comes on, if someone I don't know, I'll put my arm around him and sing, you know, it's you do it and and you sort of enjoy your night instead of fucking you know, everyone gaining at you and wanting to punch you in the face. It's sort of that's not what we want, you know.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Um and you're DJing with um Andy Ellis, who played gadget and uh your majority. And Sim Shoy, who plays Milky, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

So you how good are you at DJing if you if you don't mind?

SPEAKER_10 24:47

Well it's it's a bit of a mad when I'm a DJing I I got asked like two or three years ago, um, would you want to do a DJ set? And I was like, Are you kidding me? I've never fucking DJ'd in my life. I did a little bit when I was a kid at a youth centre, but that was all on like vinyls and didn't really take to it. But then he said to me, he was like, it's just sort of a free piss up, you come up, put some music on in leads, and I was like, Yeah, alright, you get paid for it, whatever. Um and you know, under the under the strict thing that it wasn't a PA because I don't like doing PAs, you know, where people queue up and you stand in front of a backdrop and have photos with you and like I hate that idea, I hate the idea of that. Um so yeah, yeah, I went down and played music and then I sort of picked it up and then I'd have to do another one a couple of weeks later and I was like, do you know what I fucking enjoy this? And now as I've been doing it for two or three years, I'd like we we can do it fine now. Like you say, we've you know, we we've been doing a lot of practice and you know, I think again, like with a film, I got thrown in at the deep end. You know, I was this little kid from Grimsby and was like, right, you're gonna do a film now, and I'm like, Oh fucking hell, okay. And it was like that was a DJ set, it's like with six hundred people they're all pissed up, you've got a mech on my phone. And it was like, Oh shit, pressure's on. Um which is the way I think it's the best way, yeah, it's the best way of living, I think, getting thrown in at the deep end. Um and yeah, it's sort of that, and but now I was sort of picked it up and you know, we I you know I was lucky enough to be leading the Redden Festival um this year, hopefully again next year. So it's sort of you you get get doing it in front of bigger crowds and you know, you've got to know what you're doing. So Cool.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Well, uh I look forward to coming down and checking out the set, mate. So that's gonna be on Saturday, the 10th of December. Um down the garage in Islington. And filming wise, what what can we expect to see you in next?

SPEAKER_10 26:24

Um it's sort of uh I've been doing little bits and bobs. I did um I did a small part in a film um out in Budapest, which was with Margot Robbie and Mike Myers and Simon Pegg. Um, you know, it was it was a small part, but it but to be out in Budapest for them for a week was fucking insane. I was like I was still talking to Austin Powers, you know, it was mad. And Margot Robbie, it was it was a bit of a mad one. Um that's a film called Terminal, which is again it's just a really small part, but you know, it's it opens sort of doors to to different lives, doesn't it? So Budapest is bullying. I was out there for like two months um when I was like 19 um doing a TV series called Bird Song. Um and I was out there for like two months, and I wasn't really in it that much, so I just had two months to sort of do what I want and learn the city and it was brilliant to go back again this year. Um so yeah, and I've just done uh again a small part in a and a huge TV series which I'm not really allowed to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 27:22

Um but you know, when that when that comes out, that's gonna be good. Um and yeah, so it's just some really, really good auditions coming in, which I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

Awesome. Uh well if anyone wants to follow your journey, it's follow your journey. That sounds shit, I'll change that in in post. It's uh Thomas Turgoose one on Twitter. I think you're um you're pretty active on there and people can keep a track of you and see where you can.

SPEAKER_10 27:44

Yeah, yeah, I do love a bit of Twitter.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Awesome. Okay, well cheers Thomas, thanks for taking time out, man. It's uh it's been a whole half hour, so um cheers for yeah, no words, mate.

SPEAKER_10 27:53

Thanks for taking your time to interview me and stuff. It's been good to good to have a chat on a on a safe good morning. And I'll see you on the 10th.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

Oh well. I'll definitely be there. I won't poke you and uh interrupt your dinner, but I'll certainly say hello.

SPEAKER_10 28:05

Nice one, cheers, too.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Cheers, Thomas, thanks, bye. Thomas Turkey.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

And now a word from our stuff.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

And we're gonna finish with an interview with Andrew Ellis, who played Gadget in the film This Is England also DJing down the garage at Fibroonisting film this Saturday. Welcome to the podcast now. We have Andy Ellis, probably best known as Gadget from This Is England. How are you doing, Andy?

SPEAKER_09 29:14

Yeah, good thanks, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

Cool, yeah, I'm good. Andy's got a DJ set coming up at the garage in Islington on Saturday the 10th. Uh we'll hear more about that in a bit. Andy, a little bit about the film and the TV series This Is England though, first, before we crack on with that. Uh, how did you get cast into the film? What are your first memories of landing the rollers gadget?

SPEAKER_07 29:35

Um, I got cast.

SPEAKER_09 29:36

I was I was in school, uh just a normal kind of high school in Manchester. Um and my drama teacher had got a few kind of audition things in, so they did sort of drama. Sorry, that's my little girl shouting. Um and yeah, basically went for one of these auditions, um, and it turned out to be this is England. Um Michelle Smith was casting down in Manchester. Uh and yeah, ended up being a single one. I was fifteen, uh, first ever part. Well um I just remember going into the room kind of thing. Um and not really knowing anything about it really, not knowing kind of how I'd never auditioned for anything, so just not knowing how it all worked and the kind of process was really cool because Shane does a lot of impro, so it was just it was like being back in my drama class just having a laugh with with mates and that really.

SPEAKER_04 30:29

Oh, that's cool. Did they give you any of the scenes from the film to audition for?

SPEAKER_09 30:33

Um yeah, kind of. Well, I I originally auditioned for the part of the bully um in the film who who later became Harvey, who later joined the series uh as a as a regular Michael Soccer.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 30:44

Um I I originally auditioned for for that part, um and we had to do this little improvise scene uh with the bully uh in the playground, uh which made it to the film. Um and then I don't know, Shane just was like, Oh, I've got this other character called Gadget. Do you mind reading for him? Um so yeah, we did a couple of uh little scenes, a couple of scenes with Stephen Graham, um who was who was at the audition, just kind of did uh improvise scenes around the whole uh race issue and and and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Yeah, I want to ask you about that, but uh before I get on to that one, you did the series after that, the miniseries of 86, 88, 90, this is England. Yeah. How did they um approach you for that? I mean, I'm I'm guessing the whole thing wouldn't have worked if they just got Sean back and they maybe just got Andy A different gang. So I mean, do they just kind of send out a block email to all of you and say, look, we need all of you in this otherwise it's just not gonna work?

SPEAKER_09 31:41

Um it was really, really early days, the kind of the the seed was planted for the series. Um after the film so the film came out around about 2006, 2007. Um and then unfortunately after the after the film was made, uh Thomas Turgoose, who plays Sean, his his mum died, and um like the whole kind of gang, we all got together and we we we went to Nottingham and got in a mini-bus and then went up to Grimsby uh and went to his mum's funeral. And I think that kind of uh planted the idea in Shane's mind of of of there's more stories to tell. Because obviously we're all on the bus, we've not seen each other in a couple of months, and we're all laughing and you know, telling each other war stories about when we were filming and and things like that. Um and then about a year later, so really early on, like 2008, something like that, um Warp invited us to uh Nottingham to um talk about a series and and and plan ideas and and and sort of jot down where we think our characters might be going uh in a kind of workshop environment. And then yeah, a couple of years later, like literally heard nothing about it then. And then a couple of years later, uh Chat Channel 4 obviously got in got in touch and and was saying we're gonna we're gonna do that series that we told you about years ago. And then yeah, went for it from there really. It was uh it was expected, but then kind of Shane got really busy doing uh Summer's Town and and other various projects, so it was like, Oh, I don't think this is gonna happen. He's not a TV director anyway, so he's probably just kind of thought about it and didn't like it. But then yeah, Kate came through, so glad it did really.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Well they I mean I checked just before I picked up the phone to you what what the film did on Rotten Tomatoes, and I I thought it was gonna be one of these films where the audience is gonna love it, um, but not entirely sure how the critics are gonna receive it. Um surprisingly it's 89% on the audience and 93% as it currently sits with the critics, ain't it? How um I mean were you surprised that it did critically well as well as you know, your obvious your obvious fans like it?

SPEAKER_09 33:53

Yeah, I mean the thing is like again, uh you know, I was 15 when we did the film, six sort of sixteen when it came out, so I didn't have a clue. I just thought, oh, it's you know, it's a film, like I I didn't have a clue that people took it all that seriously, you know, critics and stuff like that. Um but yeah, I mean the thing is is you know it's it's one of them films that it it it resonates with everyone, I suppose. So, you know, critics or uh you know the general public alike, I think it's it's that kind of thing. It's set in the eighties, so you can either remember the eighties or you've heard your parents talk about the eighties. Um and then there's that kind of gang element that I'm imagining pretty much everyone's been a part of like a friendship group a bit similar to that, and there's characters in there like that. So I think with that kind of setting, it's it's hard. Do you know what I mean? I mean, obviously it it could have been crap, but you know, I think it just kind of resonates with everyone because I think everyone finds a character in there that they can identify with.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 34:52

Um and like I say, the music's good. Um so you know, it's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yeah, it's I mean, I've just recently put down a book about Steven Spielberg, and someone said about Spielberg that he's a genius because he makes films that are heartwarming and about kids. And everyone was a kid at one point, so there's no matter how old you are, you can always relate to a film.

SPEAKER_09 35:13

Yeah, yeah, you can, yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what again, that's why his his film's done so well. Look like look at Stranger Things. Again, it's about a group of kids who are kind of outcasts. Everyone always imagines himself as a bit of an outcast, I guess. So you you know, you you watch it and you go, Oh, I'm just like Dustin, or I'm just like, you know, the kid who finds E.K. or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Yeah. Uh I had um well, I kind of related to a lot of the characters in the film, but everyone has at some point in their life been bullied, no matter who they are, whether they're in the most popular kid in school or not. And and other people have also had the part where they're in a gang and they feel like they're climbing up the ranks of the social pecking order, and then some newbie might come along and you've all all of a sudden you've got the rug pulled out from you and you've been relegated again. Um so I think you kind of you've got different little microcosms of uh social politics for want of a better word, and we can all relate to different ones of those different characters. Uh yeah, exactly. In terms of the politics for the film, uh when I watched the one particular scene with Combo, when he's doing the This Is England scene, and Stephen Graham pretty much just spits on the floor and just tells the whole group, look, you're either behind this line or you're not, and fractured the group. I, when I was watching that, just made immediate correlations between uh uh what's going on with Western politics now, with I mean, for example, so you just said look, I'm not going with you, Woody, uh, I'm gonna go with Combo, not because you really agreed with him, but because it was just a better option and it was an anti-establishment vote, uh you were disillusillus. I mean, I know it's I'm perhaps tenuously linking this, but I couldn't help think if there if there's a guy up there giving something very persuasive uh and and telling everyone, and he's you know he's got full of charm, he might be telling you something that's completely wrong and militant and all the things.

SPEAKER_09 37:06

Like he's gonna make America great again or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Yeah, exactly. Uh but I've kind of got it. I thought, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't agree with anything he says, but I I wouldn't mind going down the pub with him and seeing where it goes.

SPEAKER_09 37:17

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think I think that's another reason why the film kind of has has kind of resonated as well, because uh obviously it's set in the eighties, you've got the minor strikes, uh Thatcher's Britain, uh the Falklands War features predominantly in it, and when it came out in 2006, you know, we'd not long since invaded Iraq, um we you know, we were we were fighting like the Second Gulf War kind of thing, and and people related it to it then. And now 2016, it's still, you know, we're we're we're still we're in we're fighting in Syria, um in wars that we sh you know, it's should we shouldn't we really be fighting in? Um it it it it goes full circle, then it's kind of every kind of ten, fifteen years it's like, oh god, we're doing this again. It is if we learned from that last time.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

It's weird how we're not really either not learning by our mistakes or we're just so keen to get out there and pull the triggers.

SPEAKER_09 38:12

Yeah, exactly. We can't be learning from our mistakes. If you watch that film and see how bad it was under Margaret Thatcher and then you were like studied David Cameron, Theresa May studied a lot. You can't be learning that much.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

How much uh reading up? I mean, you said you were about how old, sorry, um 16 or so when you 15 when you did the role. I mean, did you have to read up on the Falklands? How much homework did you have to do?

SPEAKER_09 38:32

Um see because I wasn't uh an actor. I mean, I I wanted to be, but I I'd never kind of studied it. I didn't really know that that's what you do, you research roles and all that stuff. Um but my dad um literally uh hasn't left 1989. Uh he's just he's he's literally living in this bubble of the 80s, all he listens to is his music.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Um so your dad and my dad would get on really well.

SPEAKER_09 39:02

Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Still got a picture of Steve Davis on the wall, I'm looking at it.

SPEAKER_09 39:07

Nice. But yeah, so I just kind of spoke to my dad, um, spoke to my mum because she was a bit of a rebel in the in in the eighties, so I kind of I I imagine she would have probably been sort of in a gang like that. So I just spoke to her spoke to my dad about the kind of music scene and all that kind of stuff. Um and what it was like. But that that's probably about as far as research goes for the film. For the TV series, obviously it it it got I'd I'd I'd done a little bit of training at college and stuff, so I I went and done it all myself, you know, looked up 1986, what people were wearing and what kind of you know music people were listening to and and and all that, and then obviously up and up until 1990, um which was uh one of my favourites because the music in that for me was kind of what I sort of grew up listening to with the Stone Roses, uh the Mondays and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

And what about the brands that were featured in the film? I mean there's l loads of mentions of Dr. Martin's, Ben Sherman's, um I mean Fred Perry's worn all over the place. What were the attitudes and the response of the brands after the film came out? Were they knocking on your door, giving you a phone call, dropping off an entire wardrobe of stock?

SPEAKER_07 40:18

No, nothing like that after the film. I bloody wish they were.

SPEAKER_09 40:28

None of the big brands in the film have have ever done that, which is strange. Um but uh more recently uh others do now, which is which is always lovely. Um but no, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

I wonder if it's a social media thing, like if Instagram was around ten years ago, exactly, nothing was around then back in back in like MSN and uh Facebook wasn't even around, I don't think.

SPEAKER_09 40:52

What was it?

SPEAKER_04 40:53

My Space. My Space, yeah, critic you know Friends Reunited and all that, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:59

Yeah, yeah, all that stuff. So yeah, there wasn't there wasn't much call for uh social media back then.

SPEAKER_04 41:04

Well um one of my favourite scenes uh you're in Andy is the scene in the series. I think it's this is 86 where you're having um intercourse with uh Trudy. Uh and that for me was like, oh, this guy's really arrived in this programme now. Obviously he was in the film, but he's now literally come on the scene, it's fantastic. Um what was that what was that like filming that scene?

SPEAKER_09 41:32

Um yeah, no, it was great. Um Hannah uh Walters who plays Truder is just a comic genius, so um it it was really, really fun. We did a lot of uh kind of Shane gets you to do sort of rehearsals and stuff, but um like more like workshoppy stuff. So we went on like a little date, me and Hannah, um with her with the the lad Adam who plays her son. Um and and she's just a genius, like she just got straight into it. I think we went to Pizza Up, she wouldn't let me have like a Pizza Salad bar, she wouldn't let me uh have a full fat uh Pepsi. So she's just got you know the the waiter came over and I was like, Oh, can I have a Pepsi please like diet for him, diet for it. So yeah, so she's just a genius, but as far as filming the scenes were, uh they were terrifying really. Uh not because of the the nudity or or the content, but that um she's Stephen Graham's wife in in real life, Hannah.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Wow, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_09 42:30

So I was just I was just fearing for my life off of Stephen, really, if uh if I look the wrong way.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Yeah, I mean Stephen Graham is a scary I mean I'm for for the first half of the film, it's an interesting film and you you're going along with it. As soon as Stephen Graham arrives, it's so awkward and so tense, even when you're not really doing much. It's like the second half of the film you just feel like you want to squirm and uh you just don't know.

SPEAKER_09 42:53

Yeah, exactly, which is which is a credit to Steve, really, because he's he's literally one of the nicest blokes I know.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 42:59

Um but terrifying as well in in in in the film and that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

It reminded me of like a um a Joe Pesci. If you take Joe Pesci out of Goodfellas and Raging Bull, for example, he's a small five foot three nothing, isn't he? I mean he's he's the miniature but it's the same with Stephen Graham. If you take him away from that, you think, well, I could probably have a have a go with him and land a few punches.

SPEAKER_09 43:22

Yeah, I mean it's exactly that. It's it's again, you know, he's just a an incredible actor and um I learned a lot from him doing the film of just he he he taught me that sometimes it's okay to kind of just go and take five minutes to get into the zone because you know people will be rushing and and and working and and all the crew will be doing their thing. And sometimes like as an actor you're kind of just you're looking around and you're trying to be busy. Um and i I I looked to a few times when we were doing a film, especially before the kind of bigger scenes that Stephen was doing, and he'd just be sat in like a little corner on his own, just kind of kind of just you know, getting into the zone, closing his eyes and just thinking and and and and pumping himself up and it you know it must bloody work, you know.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

Yeah, he's uh he's horrible. He's doing all right, um so lastly, Andy, you've got a DJ set coming up at the garage in London. Tell us a little bit about the night, please.

SPEAKER_09 44:25

Um yeah, so it's uh uh official This is England night. Um I'll be there uh along with Andrew Shim, who plays Milke, and Thomas Turgoose who plays Sean. Um and yeah, we're just gonna have a few drinks and and play some music for everyone, really. A bit of Indie, uh some Madchester classics, uh tr see how that goes down in in the old smoke. Um and maybe a bit of hip-hop as a bit, whatever. It's one of them, really. We kind of uh gauge the night, see what everyone's enjoying, and and kind of go off the audience, really. And we're not scared of jumping in and having a bit of a dance with everyone and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 45:04

Thank you, Andrew Ellis, and thank you to Thomas Turgoose. That is the show. That's the end of this episode of the Men's Wear Style podcast. Like I said, if you want to check out all the other interviews and features, it's over on the site at www.menswearstyle.co.uk. And don't forget to leave us a lovely review in iTunes to keep me in the job. Okay, until next week. See you later.