SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast. With me, your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode, we're going to be speaking to women. We're going to be talking about the women in menswear. We're going to be starting with Sarah Ann Murray. She's a fashion director, and she's going to be telling me the only time that she wears a dress.

SPEAKER_06 0:32

The only time really I wear dress dresses. This is probably another reason I gravitated towards mensway, and that is that I'm not a very girly girl. And I have a promise to all of my friends that on their birthdays I'll wear a dress. And that's pretty much the only occasion. That or the beat.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Say a few words to the audience.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

My name is Dorothy. It's that Turtsy or Turts or Sweetie or Honey or Dad. Oh, Jesus. No, just Dorothy. Now Alan's always Alan, Tom is always Tom, and John's always John. I have a name too. It's Dorothy, Capital D-O-R-O-T-H-Y. Dorothy.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

It's going to be a long day. I'm also going to be talking to Kieran Summer. She co-founded the new Western Assembly, which is a menswear shop on Red Church Street. She's going to tell us why her and her sister decided to open a menswear shop.

SPEAKER_05 1:27

I think when you go to places such as Berlin and Copenhagen and Stockholm, the boutique culture there is um is more advanced than it is here, and you tend to get a lot more independent brands. But that's kind of the inspiration for Western Assembly and the reason why we decided to create the brand.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

That interview coming up shortly. Sorry, Dorothy, it's just not gonna work out. I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to let you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Why am I not right, Mr. Carlisle?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, for one, you're calling me Mr. Carlisle. My name's Peter, it's it's not a hard name to remember.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I'm an actress. I'm a character actress. I can play this part any quick you want.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I know, I know. I'm just trying to highlight how powerful women can be in a very male-dominated industry, and I'm afraid you're just too girly girly. You're not tough, you're not threatening enough. It's a start. But hold that for. We're also going to be talking to one of the best shirt makers in London, Emma Willis. She's gonna tell me how to pronounce German Street. Am I saying Germain or German Street?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

It's German Street.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

I've always called it Germain Street. No wonder people give me funny looks. German Street. Germain Street. Great.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

That's the one.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

German Street. Got it. Nailed it. Okay, so before we crack on, just a little bit of housekeeping. If you're not there already, head over to the website. It's www.menswearstyle.co.uk. There you'll find a lot more blogs, competitions, features, interviews. It's all going on over there.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Yes, I think I know what y'all really want.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

You want some girls' caricature of woman to prove some idiotic point like power makes women masculine or masculine women are ugly? Well, shame on the woman that lets you do that, or any woman that lets you do that. Shame on you, you macho shithead.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Okay, let's get going, shall we? Here's our interview with Fashion Director Sarah Anne Murray. Okay, so on the podcast now we have Fashion Director Sarah Ann Murray. How are you doing today, Sarah?

SPEAKER_06 3:30

I'm very well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Not at all. Uh Sarah, could you just give us a little bit of a backstory about yourself, just your nutshell resume, brag a little, if you will.

SPEAKER_06 3:39

Uh-huh. So um I started quite a few years ago, showing my age now, um, and I I did a few courses following university and much travelling. I did a few courses at the London College of Fashion, um, all to do styling, personal styling, editorials, photo shoots along those lines, and learning the creative um, the skills that you need to master early on, and had some great teachers. And then I did a little bit more travelling, um, lived in Australia for a while, um, and decided that having worked with a few magazines locally and had a few sort of personal clients, that it was magazines and um men's fashion, that was what I was really quite passionate about. And I was very lucky, sort of cut a long story short. I I met the rake when I was in Singapore, and it was perfect. I loved the magazine, I loved the style, and that was six years ago.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Mm-hmm. Uh so I'd done a little bit of research on you, learned that you graduated from Birmingham University where you studied law and French, is that right?

SPEAKER_06 4:39

Yeah, yeah, that's correct.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

So, why the C change over to fashion?

SPEAKER_06 4:43

Do you know it's funny? I left university and um and sort of promised my I was on a promise to my parents that I was just going to nip off and go travelling and that I would be right back to come back and be a solicitor. That old gentleman. Yeah, and I I came back to England ten years later. And um so I never really got around to it, in truth be told. I I just sort of you know pursued a more creative uh field involving a much more hands-on kind of uh role, and and I've loved it, never really looked back, and I've got an awful memory. I'd have made a terrible lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I was just gonna ask a question about the college as well. You went to a London fashion college, what was that like?

SPEAKER_06 5:22

Yeah, yeah, I did short small courses there, um, just to really focus skills, and once I'd figured out what it was I wanted to do, I thought I ought to go and learn the craft, and um because I had my degree, like you mentioned, it wasn't in um the arts or anything, it was a really sort of vocational degree. So I realized that whilst it is a very creative job and um it's a skills that you you can learn, it it I wanted to sort of be uh taught by some serious teachers in the London College of Fashion. There are amazing, amazing teachers and a school there, so it was great to go and learn from the experts.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

What sort of things can you learn from there and what skill skets can you pick up? Because I often think of fashion as being really transitional and subjective, so opinionated, but also quite disposable. So what kind of thing is that it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 6:06

It is, absolutely. Um, and you know, a lot of the great things that I learned was about um working with other people and if for especially for personal styling, understanding that um you're working with people who have emotions um and that they they are the lays you have to get through first, and that it does differ very much from doing editorials and um you know, sell uh creating a message about um what a suit can do for a man is very on a page, and um selling a dream is very different to actually making a man feel comfortable about going out to work every day, and and um that those are the sort of the two the biggest things I learned that they one is an aesthetic dream and one is an aesthetic reality, and and that was really sort of a deeper meaning in appreciating what this sort of the the industry can do.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Okay, um so why menswear, Sarah?

SPEAKER_06 6:58

Um I like with menswear, there's I mean obviously women's well, there's a lot of history, but with menswear, there's it's so steeped in the traditions of be it military or legal traditions, um, rules and regulations that have um formed, be it through social or economic pressures, um, or you know, societal norms that um men had to adhere to to represent where they were, you know, for example, in a class society or in the workplace, and how those rules are still are relevant today. For example, you know, why you wear a cumabund with a tuxedo a certain way up, and it was to you know, catch your crumbs or hold your tickets when you go to the opera, really sort of tiny, minute details. Yeah, things like that that sort of they still resonate today and that you they can evolve and they can change, and but it's it's it seems so strict with menswear, and and also it's a great challenge that you you have less to play with. Um and I am a uh you know being a woman myself, I have the fun of getting ready in the morning and doing the hair and the makeup, the heels, and it's it's all a bit you know, that side of the of the drama of it. You don't have as much with menswear, um, less garments to play with. Um you can you have less options with hair, makeup, and um it I I quite like the the the difficulties that you you can face with menswear. It's a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

And a suit, I I'm I'm obsessed with a good suit, so that I mean that surely must be able to cross-pollinate. I mean, women wear suits, obviously, so that can all of that sort of tailoring can happen in the women's wear as well. Do you have a hand in that at all?

SPEAKER_06 8:33

Uh absolutely. Um, and it's something I do want to explore actually is too is um that with women's wear, um everyday street style, casual glamour is really well looked after. But I think um women in who uh want to wear suits or in the workplace run super professional women, um I think tailoring should be more accessible to them um and not done in a a boring, stuffy way or in an 80s power suit way. I think it can be um we should go and look at that certainly in more detail, suits for women.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah, um Sarah, could you enlighten me, please, from a male perspective? What are your pet peeves when it comes to men's fashion in terms of when you see a dude walking down the street? What are you most put off with the most? Apart from mucky trainers. I've already sorted out my trainers, that's fine. Um but anything else?

SPEAKER_06 9:24

Yeah, do you know? Okay, let's you good point with footwear. Um I think smart, they they don't have to be super expensive or super smart, but regularly update your shoes so that they are still in pretty good condition. Um polish them, look after them, and as as soon as they're looking a little bit tatty, I don't think then. And you don't have to spend a fortune. Um but starting at the feet, I think the the shoe uh shoe wear foot range, I think that's a good starting point. And then an invest, I mean, you don't again you don't have to spend a fortune, but getting a suit that fits. So even if you buy ready to wear off the rack from a high street store, go and get it tailored a little bit, you know, just have it nipped and and taken in by someone who knows how to make it fit, so it does have the look, it gives it you know, it would uh fit you better. Um, and that is uh you know, a few a few basics, I would say. Um and then oh what about another pet peeve? Um belts with suits, especially matching belts to matching shoes. Yeah, that cheapens a s a suit in a heartbeat. Um if you buy you know trousers that fit already, they shouldn't have belt loops, and then it's a sign that the suit is a well-fitting suit. And if you need a belt, it's a sign that it's not a well-fitting suit. Leave the belts for jeans and chinos, I'd say, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

God, I'm writing all this down. This is fantastic. Well, um, I've my girlfriend's actually just sorted out my entire wardrobe. So she's kind of she's kind of sculpted. Yeah, I mean, Cracky, I made it all the way through my 30s without actually going out and buying any decent shirts. And so when we were turning up to dinner dates, she just said, Look, I've just got to sort you out. This I've got to go.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

You are so lucky. Oh, yeah, tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

I mean, she just took me down to TM Lewin and just said, right, just spend half an hour in here. That's a that's not a an advertisement for TM Lewin. It could have been anywhere, but the most convenient of places.

SPEAKER_06 11:15

A local shirt supplier, yes. Yeah. I mean, I think the great thing with menswear is that there are, whilst there are these rules that I that I do love, once you know them, you know you could you can learn how to break them or evolve them. And I mean, you look at the Italian style, it's very different to British style, and we are perhaps more conservative and traditional, but they have evolved their style and it and it's still it's still classic, it's it's great, but I think you men can and should have more fun with uh with their style these days. Um there's so many more options for guys as well. So it's um you know, like for example, how the t-shirts become acceptable now to wear with a suit, how it's acceptable to wear you know luxury sneakers or trainers. It's um we've come so far. So yes, whilst there are traditions and rules, like you can you can bend it. And I think like you say, you know, investing in a few just regularly updating your wardrobe, once the shirts, the collars have started to go, throw them and start again.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah, give them a few tweaks. Um I was actually at a wedding recently and I was wearing my tux, my very new tux. So I was very happy to be invited to this wedding. And uh a lot of the women there were having the debate about who was luckier, the guys or the girls, because a guy can just put on a tux and wear that tux to every other wedding, to every other event, to every other award show. But yeah, a woman has to change. So do you prefer which element do you prefer? The actual the choice of having something different to wear for each occasion, or would you rather be uniformed?

SPEAKER_06 12:40

Oh, I uh I'm a little bit of the the worst of both worlds in that I do want to go straight to a suit, but then I also want to change it for every event I go to. So I'm I'm definitely uh the worst of both, I think, in that respect. But um, yeah, usually for weddings I will yeah, I often go for sort of an elegant suit. Um the only time really I wear dresses dresses, this is probably another reason I gravitated towards men's wearing that, is that I'm not a very girly girl. And I have a promise to all of my friends that on their birthdays I'll wear a dress, and that's pretty much the only occasion. That or the beach. But um I think for guys, yeah, I think you've got it. I think you're you're lucky in that if you invest in a well-fitted tuxedo or suit that that can um that is so useful, you don't have to think too much about it. Yeah, as long as your accessories are working for the season or the type of wedding, then uh you're okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah, good pool.

SPEAKER_06 13:33

Maybe I should just change the pocket square every now and again, like a an off-white as opposed to uh yeah, and then add some spots or yeah. Yeah, I think guys have got it luckier though. It's a stress for women. You can't have friends see the same dress twice, all of that nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

So I know, yeah. Well, um we can just we can even turn up wearing the same tux. Like, hey, you've got the same tux as me. I'd be like, Yeah, well, good choice, and then dudes will high-five each other and be like, yeah, let's get drunk. So well, yeah. Sarah, what's an average day like for you then? I mean, I guess you've got a a huge client base now. Do you have to go out and advertise or do you turn people away? What's your calendar like these days?

SPEAKER_06 14:10

Um, it's nice lovely and busy now, I have to say. I left the rake about a month and a half ago. Um and that was a since then, since I'm now freelance, I'm I'm still as busy as ever. It's press weeks, uh, press days this week, so I'm popping into all of the the brands and the uh the PRs to go and see the latest the spring summer collections to remind myself, and that's where I get a lot of ideas from for editorial shoots to see the clothes close up. Um and that's when you get inspiration, you see sort of a certain trend, or um you know, for example, you haven't seen safari shirts at the moment, you think, okay, great, I could do a great sort of story on that. Is it something I could write about? And then you think, okay, well, let's try and five five of the best. Um, and then if people are asking me, well, what jacket should I recommend? For example, I I saw a great jacket the other day, it was a really soft navy blazer, and I think I put it on my Instagram, and sort of like guys, loads of you are asking me what blazer to get for spring summer, and this would be the one I'd invest in. So going out and constantly being a spy, that's what I try and do. And then on the other side, logistics for shoot prep that keeps me um chained to my laptop and looking at photographers' portfolios and coming up with the you know the right plan and the trying to come up with mood boards and ideas to work with photographers, and once you get that sort of spark with the photography is fantastic, it's such a great feeling when you can work together, and then you go ahead and do the shoot, and um that's a really good feeling. And then I've got private clients who want um suits and outfits for weddings and Christmas and etc. etc. So then going to re from a retail point of view, going to look at uh what you know what stores are stocking at the moment, um all the way from top top high end to accessible high street. So it's I'm I'm busy, it's great, and I'm not very good at sort of self-promoting, I don't do all the marketing. I write if it happens organically, then that works for me. So I don't really put myself out there. I quite like it when the universe just you know happens to you know come up with a good collaboration, then I'll go with it. Um I'm quite I think I'm quite uh organic in that way.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

God, it sounds like a beautiful place to be.

SPEAKER_06 16:19

Well, it's it's I'm trying it's sort of working so far, but if I spend too much time at home, I get a little bit angsty, I need to be out up and doing things.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Uh Sarah, so lastly, I always like to know do people like your mates, do they come in and ask for advice and do you have to offer mates rates, or do you just say go to my website, you know? Or do you media kit?

SPEAKER_06 16:43

They they do ask me for advice and it's really lovely, it's great actually. Usually with the guys, it's sort of on the morning of uh an event that they have to go to, like, oh, I'm getting married today, or I'm going to my friend's wedding tomorrow, what can you do? And I usually at that point sort of take my collection of ties and pocket squares round and sort of do you know do a last bit minute bit of styling for them. Um yeah, no, I happily uh offer mates' rates and or you know favours you can take take each other out for lunch, or I've got one who's a personal trainer at the moment, so I'm sort of trying to work out well if you get you give me personal training, I will start you.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I like that.

SPEAKER_06 17:19

So everyone's a winner, but um yeah, no, I'm happy to help help people out because it's such a uh a difficult thing, it's you really do need sort of an outside opinion at times because you just can't see your you know, you have a wardrobe full of things you don't like, it's hard to step out of that. So sometimes it does just take a second opinion, and and I'm always happy to offer that.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Awesome. Well, thanks, Sarah, thanks for your time.

SPEAKER_06 17:42

You're most welcome. Absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

If people want to check you out or even ask for a collaboration, it's uh your Instagram feeds is up at Sarah underscore Ann underscore Murray. Um I think people should just be Googling you and you'll be coming up, and your website's gonna be arriving soon as well at Sarah Ann Murray.com, so uh people can check that out.

SPEAKER_06 18:02

Thank you, that's me in the hat. I'm usually wearing a hat. That's just to cover bad bad hair days, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Sarah Ann Murray there. And now time for a word from our sponsor. You know, times are changing.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Ladies can do stuff now, and you're gonna have to learn how to deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

It's good stuff. So, Dorothy, have you got anything to add to that?

SPEAKER_02 18:26

As a woman.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

And just as proud to be a woman.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

And and and and and and and and and and and just just just just just just just Okay, just hold that for.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

We're gonna have a chat now with Kieran Sumra, co-founder of Western Assembly. On the podcast now we have Kieran Sumra, affectionately known as Kiz. She's a co-founder of Western Assembly, a menswear store down in Red Church Street. How are you doing, Kieran?

unknown 18:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:58

I'm well, how are you, Peter?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

I'm fine. Thank you for taking the time out to speak to us. How long has the shop been open?

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Well, the shop's been open um for three and a half weeks now, coming up to four weeks. So it's our first permanent store um that we've had since launching Western Assembly 18 months ago. Um, and the reason myself and my sister Anita decided to go into menswear in the first place was because Anita has um a lot of experience in uh menswear buying. She's been menswear buyer at Burberry um for five years and noted that there was a really big gap in the market for um not high street, not super luxury, but that kind of premium contemporary market. Um and there's more of a demand than ever for um kind of premium contemporary apparel that's locally made and produced with a lot of skill and a lot of care, um, and that isn't widely available um necessarily in Britain at the moment. I think when you go to places such as Berlin and Copenhagen and Stockholm, um the boutique culture there is um is more advanced than it is here, um and you tend to get a lot more independent brands. Um, but that's kind of the inspiration for Western Assembly and the reason why we decided to create the brand.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Awesome. Okay, so uh what's your background then? So your sister works or sorry, did work for Burberry. Have you got any experience in the trade?

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Yeah, so Anita worked for uh Burberry for five years, um, and my background is all in digital strategy, so I worked across various agencies um in London working for brands such as um Guinness um and Tankerray, so kind of male skew alcohol brands, as well as um some sportswear brands, including Reebok. I worked on Estee Lauder and did some apothecary for brands such as Lab Series and Mac and things like that. So, yeah, my kind of background is all in digital marketing, which is why originally um we launched as a digital pure play brand. We launched initially just with the website, um, and we had a one-day pop-up actually just to mark the launch of the brand, and then our first pop-up came slightly after that. So we didn't launch with our bricks and mortar store, it was um a website knowing we were relying on pop-up stores, and as the business developed over the last 18 months, um, we realized we needed to be um a multi-channel store, so our online presence is just as important as our offline. Um and we see uh very different contact, as you can imagine, with the customers across both of those. Um so that's kind of how a needs experience in menswear buying and my experience in digital and um kind of marketing strategy combines.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

And do you find that one kind of bolsters the other? That when people shop online, they can see that there's bricks and mortar, that they can effectively bring something back to a place, you know. Powerful.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Yeah. Yeah, so we do always try and tie the link in both of those. So within our website, we'll always have um images and things of our physical store, and often when we send out newsletters to our subscribers who subscribe online at westernassembly.com, um they often will get a newsletter which hasn't only got um information about what's available online, but sometimes we have exclusives in store, so we try and really differentiate um our offering in store and online, which I think is really important. People don't necessarily um get gripped if you have exactly the same offering online as you have offline. So we try and differentiate that and kind of give people um a slight change depending on where they're shopping from.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Sure. Kieran, can I ask you um what the footfall's like in Red Church? Because I used to run an independent fashion shop as well in a place that was uh uh that had zero footfall. We were literally out in the country like an alien mothership had dropped a fashion shop in the middle of a field. Uh but the idea was obviously to sell more online and be an online presence. But yet to entice people to come in the shop, we had to do entirely different deals than we did online. So is it congruent? Do people understand the difference generally?

SPEAKER_05 23:14

Yeah, they definitely do. In terms of the footfall in Red Church Street, it's it's really strong. Um the thing we find is that the customer that we have in Redchurch Street is spot on for our kind of brand. So you get a lot of people who are looking for independent brands, they're looking for something slightly different, not necessarily mass-produced. Um whereas when we've worked in other places, we had a six-month pop-up in Covent Garden, which was incredibly successful. Um, the footfall was higher. However, not every single person who comes into the shop really understands what it means to shop in Western Assembly and to understand the value of buying a brand from Amsterdam, for example, that isn't available anywhere else in the UK, and the fact that they have really high quality premium Italian linens which aren't widely available in other stores in the UK. So what we find in yeah, essentially Red Church Street gives us a higher uh a higher percentage of our customer who engages with the brand, whereas other areas that we've tested had um really high footfall, but not always the exact customer coming in every time. So, yeah, it's going really well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Awesome. Yeah, I guess it's just knowing or the customer being a little bit more knowing and not really go, why is this priced at 100 quid when you can get something similar across the road for 20 quid when they don't quite know what the material is, or like you say, the exclusivity of the product, yeah. Um so about the brands, I mean I noticed you've got Stutterheim, uh La Paz, which I'm a big fan of. How did you go about selecting the brands?

SPEAKER_05 24:51

So um Anita and I take uh regular trips out to Europe, so we primarily um go to the to Paris to our trade shows where a lot of our brands showcase. Um and it was really interesting in the beginning, actually, because we obviously went with absolutely no experience in trading within menswear, and before we launched the brand, we obviously had to launch with our brands on board, so we had to essentially convince them that our offering was something really strong and really different, and why should they trust two women in menswear in the whole crowd of you know all the boutiques and shops and things that are out there? So um basically it's it's every six months we'll go to trade shows, we'll meet our brands, we'll buy new collections, and we'll scope out new brands. But what we've also found is a few of our brands we've found through things like social media. So over the summer we had a really lovely swimmer brand from Italy called Peninsula, and they were again exclusive to us in the UK, but they were a brand new brand and they were handmade within Italy and they were really lovely high quality, and we didn't actually find them from a trade show. So we kind of do take that inspiration from various different places, but as you can imagine, brands like Stutterheim, who are so well known, they're so incredible, um, until we were really bolstering our stockist list with amazing brands such as La Paz and Delicatessen and Lan Rouge, and they obviously knew then that they could trust us and as opposed to being with us straight away. So Stutterheim, we actually picked up a couple of seasons in, and we're so happy to have them on board. Um, but for us, we really want to strike the balance between really well-known brands such as Stutterheim and such as La Paz with those lesser known brands. Um so it's always a challenge for us to try and make sure we're offering something fresh and we keep the um our hashtag is escape the ordinary. We want to try and really keep that alive. So really offering something that's really unique and to the marketplace and something that means something.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Okay, so K I'm interested, I'm intrigued. What are your pet peeves when it comes to men's fashion?

SPEAKER_05 27:04

Uh when it comes to men's fashion, to be honest, I don't have too many, I think each to their own. Um often, obviously, it can get quite funky. But um, in terms of my pet peeves, I always think that you get you start to get this generation of men who I think lose inspiration and they are unsure of how to shop, and maybe they've been kind of um, you know, they're getting slightly too old for certain high street stores, so they're wearing shirts and belts and shoes, and every day that's all you see. It's kind of the same, the same cut shirt with the same blue belt and the same sorry, the same brown belt and the same blue jeans, um, and it kind of just gets a bit old and a bit samey samey. Not that you can't obviously wear that and it look amazing, but I think that's my main pet peeve in terms of you know, nine to five wearing something exciting. I think sometimes men just get stuck in a bit of a rug with what they're wearing in the office.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

And that's where you come in, I guess. So uh are you dating, courting, married?

SPEAKER_05 28:10

No, I married, recently married, yeah, so a couple of months ago.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Okay, so uh when you met your fellow, did you have to tweak his wardrobe? Did you have to sculpt him into this vision that he is today?

SPEAKER_05 28:23

I attempted and I continue to try, but no, he's fairly well dressed already himself. So um he loves a colourless shirt and a nice jacket and some funky shoes, so no, he's all he's already pretty good, but I think having Western Assembly always helps give him that extra edge. Um and my brother-in-law, actually, Anita's husband, has always been impeccably dressed, he's very good. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Well, you've set the standard, I suppose. Yeah, and how many people and family members ask you for mates rates? Like I said, I always had people that would come into the shop and amazingly would ask for discounts even though I've never seen or heard of them in five years.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

And it's like Yeah, I mean it really varies. I think I feel the pressure more when friends are coming in and they're buying something, and I'm like, oh my gosh, and I feel really obliged. But obviously, with such a tiny business, you're like, What do I do? So, not to be honest, it's not that often. We've had like friends of staff members try and ask when like and that's been quite random. Um, but yeah, it's not too often, but yeah, you must remember what it was like. It's just a bit of a a bit of an awkward moment.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

It can be. I mean, I did some kind of loyalty scheme in the shop where if you spent over a certain amount, then you're entitled to discounts. So we try to reward people that way. Uh but when you have friends and you're in the shop talking for about an hour before you even start going, right, well, what do you want today? Here's some jeans.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Um it gets a little bit tricky, and I always feel obligated. I'm like, oh mate, just take it. Don't even pay for it. You know, you're good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

That's the thing, you feel obliged and you're like, enjoy! I think it's a self-esteem. They're wrapping the brand.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah, exactly. Um, lastly, why Western Assembly? I think what's where does the name come from?

SPEAKER_05 30:13

So the name comes from. Well, we we actually, when we launched, we picked up a very um random name that ended up sounding very American, which was the complete opposite of our aim to push European-specific um independent menswear brands. Um, but Western Assembly is because we are assembling a curated collection of brands from Europe in the West, essentially. So it's a Western assembly of menswear.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Makes sense. Okay, and I think everyone should head over to the website and check out all your brands. So you've got Wolsey the past. I'm just to mention a few. Uh WesternAssembly.com is the place to go. So thanks, Kieran.

SPEAKER_05 30:53

Thank you so much for your time and everyone follow on social as well. There's lots of good stuff on there.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Where can they find you on social?

SPEAKER_05 31:00

On social Instagram and Facebook and Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

At Western Assembly, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

Yeah, at Western Assembly.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Awesome, got it. Great. Thank you. All right, enjoy your day. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

Take care, bye.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Karen Summer there from Western Assembly. Sadly, we couldn't get hold of Anita. She was supposed to be on the phone and join us for the interview, however, we had technical issues. But Dorothy, you know something about the sisters, don't you?

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yes. I do feel great.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Okay, I'm all in.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

She was 15 years old and was written out of head. In fact, she was so terrified that she would have uh that the baby daughter would bear the stigma of illegitimacy that she decided to change her name and she contracted a disfiguring disease.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Right. Well, you know, what what can be more fascinating than that, apart from our interview with Emma Willis? Are you ready for this?

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Yes, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Excellent. Well, let's just get into it, shall we? Here's our chat with Emma Willis, shirt maker of German Street. Okay, so on the podcast now we have Emma Willis, the shirt maker of German Street. How are you doing today, Emma?

SPEAKER_00 32:08

I'm fine, thank you. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

I'm very well, thanks for taking the time out to speak to us. So, Emma, what I want to know up front is why menswear why not women's wear?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Um, well, I got involved in the men's shirt business when I left art school and I worked for a company um selling clothes door to door in the 80s, and um they had some a mixture of clothes there and they had not some not so great clothes and they had some quite okay men's shirts. So I pulled out the men's shirts and I headed for the city, which was you know booming at that time, and um and I had friends who were working in the city and I just I just took the men's shirts and I sold the shirts in the city to um to different companies and that's how I that's how I originally got started. Um and I ended up being able to take over a small bespoke. I I actually set up my own thing following that. It it went it was it was um you know, I felt I I knew that I felt there was a demand and I had the opportunity of taking over a small um former Tambalan Ather bespoke factory in London. Um the cutter then at the time was um not able to do the sales side as well and he was had a he had a he was a former Tamil and Assha cutter and he had this fabulous little workroom in Newcross with um five ladies sewing and and him cutting. So I took that over and that got me in the on the on the manufacturing side of it and really enjoying that side of it. That's how I got started.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Oh well, so literally going from door to door then. So do you have I mean are these houses or offices or both?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

It was any anywhere, anywhere where a man might buy a shirt. So um well then it was I mean there was it was actually women's clothes as well for this company. So people yeah, we were all knocking on doors, um going into bars after lunch, and um it was it was pretty desperate door-to-door selling, really.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

After that, you then um managed to get your own factory after a while. Um that so you have a factory down in Gloucester? Is that right? Um now I've seen the the factory on online, I've seen pictures of it. I've worked in a thousand factories, Emma, I've never seen a factory like this. So how did that come about?

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Um well I live near Gloucester, so um I I I advertised when I wanted to set up my own factory again and a bigger one in the in the country. Um I advertised because it actually our area is very creative, the Stride area, and Gloucester, there's a lot traditionally it's an area of um well, it's the wool where the wool trade began. So um and it's continued to be an area of um very strong in in in in making and um the sewing industry. So um and textiles. So I put an advertisement in the papers, the local um Sarincester Cheltenham and Gloucester papers, and I got an amazing response from Gloucester, um, really, really talented people who were very experienced in shirt making as well. And so that's why I started the so then I found my premises in Gloucester, having found the the core team of cutters and sewers. And then um we were in that place for two years. It was really it was lovely. It was a nice I I it was very it was an open plan, very light. I I always want to uh uh to make in very light surroundings because with really detailed sewing you need to have really good natural daylight. So we were in that place for two years and then I wonder I was we were bursting out of it and I was strolling past um Bayland House. I saw it uh I thought I had walked past it many times, I hadn't really noticed it before, and I suddenly saw this beautiful house and it said that it was um it was for rent and so I just thought, oh my gosh, that is our next place. And I so I contacted the estate agents and um and yeah, I've been available for for quite a while, so I was able to get a very, very competitive rent on it. And it is yeah, two over two thousand square feet of beautiful listed building with amazing cornicing and um carp um beautiful carved staircases and hardly needed a penny spent on it.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Oh wow, yeah. I mean if if anyone's um wanting to take a look at this place, it's Emma Willis.com and you can go to the the factory section on your website and have a look at the 18th century building. It looks beautiful. So Emma, how long does it actually take to make a shirt from scratch? So when you get the yarn, you roll it out on the table, um what kind of turnaround does it take?

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Um well actually casting-wise, it's it depends obviously whether you're cutting one shirt or ten shirts or or fifty shirts or depending on the lace. Um but s so w as far as the sewing it takes, each lady can make an experienced seamstress, um, can make about five shirts a day sewing um throughout. So, um and probably to cut a shirt um they are they are uh it it depends. If it's making a whole new pattern, that obviously takes quite a lot longer. That can take an hour if you're making a pattern and then um and then cutting it. Or if you're just cutting um from a p a pre pre-prepared pattern that you've already made, um it will probably be half an hour. Um you've got obviously there's many parts of the shirt that have to be cut. Again, if you're doing plain shirt, it's quicker, but if you're doing stripes or checks, you've got to we match everything at all the themes, so it's really skilled cutting. Um so yeah, we we uh uh probably about five shirts a day um an experienced seamstress can make, and the way we make them with our single needle stitching and very small stitch cut.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

I mean it sounds like it's not just handcrafted, but there's a lot of love that goes into these shirts as well. So do the does a seamstress put their own makers mark on them or anything like that, or is there some kind of uh finite detail?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Um we we don't, but definitely everybody takes huge pride in their work and in the work that we produce. So we all each person operates as their own quality control. We don't actually officially have a quality control person because each person is responsible for doing their part of the shirt um as beautifully as they can. And if there is a fault at the end of the line, it will it will go back and there'll be no accusations. Somebody takes it back and and and corrects a thing that's you know that the the whatever the small thing might be. So it's um it's definitely huge pride taken in work. Um I don't we don't, you know, reward for speed, although everybody knows that they um obviously for in for the success of the company, everyone needs to make the shirts as quickly as possible. Um but it's not it's speed is is not the essence um uh when you're training and learning. That's that comes with obviously with with experience. Um the the over the most important thing we all know is the quality of it. Um and and and the good service, you know, getting getting the shirts on time to people, but the quality is is everything, but with the pride. And I think that's why the you know, to take to so making with love and care. Certainly the shirts we make for our injured service personnel are made with a huge amount of love um from the ladies because we're making sort of one or two shirts for a young chap who would never ever be able to afford a bespoke shirt and who's also undergone a a very serious injury um serving his country. So those ones are there's a lot of love poured into those.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

This is the Style for Soldiers campaign that you do, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yes, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Uh have you got any plans to do anything this Christmas? Because it's like an annual thing, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

It is, yeah. We have the we have a big reunion party for all the um injured servicemen and their girlfriends or wives, or they can bring a family member. Um and so that we'll we're having a yeah, a great big party. Um a wonderful company called Addis made this, it's making beautiful Star for Soldiers cufflinks. So we'll be giving gifts on the night. Um and um it's it's a great reunion.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Just a little question about the the retail element of your business, please, Emma. I mean I've worked in a retail fashion shop for about three years myself, uh, and there's so many variables can to consider. There's not just high footfall doesn't necessarily mean high turnover. How do you see the high street changing or how have you seen the high street changing since you opened in German Street?

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Uh well, certainly this area, um, much more footfall, but uh it does continue to be you know pretty high-end footfall. You get less window shoppers here. You really most people when they come in they are going to buy something. Um and also because it's predominantly male, they're tending to shop with a purpose um rather than perhaps just um musing on what they they might buy. Um so um it's got but with the arrival of the hedge fund business um about ten years ago, things um everything got a a a lot younger, probably more glamorous. The nightclubs and the clubs and the restaurants and the bars and everything sort of shut up, everything was being refurbished and um so much younger, um, still predominantly male clientele around here. Um now it's very, very international. Um we've we it always has been, but it was predominantly Americans and Europeans now, um huge uh cross-section of nationalities from all over the world, um and um probably many more Asians now than Europeans, probably, if you did a generalization. Um so um it's very vibrant, it's fantastic, it's a really great place to have a shop if you're in that sort of higher end of things where you know people can afford um you know the the very best of British made things, um it is a very, very vibrant area.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Excellent, great. Um and just lastly, Emma, uh how many shirts does David Gandhi have of yours?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Um he does have quite a lot, probably certainly ten shirts, and I think they're his favourite bespoke shirts, he has said.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

So um Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

And David is, of course, the ambassador to our our charity style for soldiers, and he's a fantastic ambassador and puts a huge amount into it and is very popular with the soldiers and their partners.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Emma Willister. Okay, so that about wraps it up for another episode of the Men's Wear Style Podcast. I'd like to thank my guests, Sarah Ann Murray, Kieran Summerer, and Emma Willis for joining me. Again, the website is www.menswearstyle.co.uk. That's where you need to go for all the blogs, features, interviews, like us on iTunes, give us a nice five-star review, write a nice comment, that would be lovely, that'll keep me in a job. Follow us on the social at menswear style. Any final words from you, Dorothy?

SPEAKER_02 42:34

And and and and and and and and and and and just just just just just just got it.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Okay, well write it down, maybe we'll read it out next week. Thanks once again, everybody. See you soon. Take care, bye-bye.