Menswear Style Podcast
The Menswear Style Podcast is a leading men’s fashion and menswear podcast exploring men’s style, clothing, grooming, lifestyle and the business behind some of the world’s most exciting fashion brands. Hosted by Peter Brooker, each episode features conversations with menswear designers, fashion entrepreneurs, innovative brand founders and industry experts from across the global fashion and apparel industry. Discover the stories behind established and emerging clothing brands, from the first idea and challenges of launching a fashion start-up to building a successful international business. Guests share their experiences and insights across fashion design, sustainability, manufacturing, marketing, branding, eCommerce, retail, social media and business growth. Whether you’re interested in men’s fashion and style, discovering new menswear brands, starting your own clothing label, or learning how successful fashion businesses are built, the Menswear Style Podcast takes you behind the scenes of the modern menswear industry. New conversations with the people shaping the future of menswear, men’s style and fashion.
Menswear Style Podcast
Michael Stone of Brutus, Andrew Tompsett of Merc, Paul Brown of Adaptor Clothing, Phil Bickley of Real Stars Are Rare & Stephen Hattersley of Carnaby Designs
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We look back to the 1960s and discuss the Mod subculture clothing industry with some its key players. We chat to some of the biggest names, founders and designers of the current Mod world. We speak to Phil Bickley at Real Stars Are Rare, Andrew Tompsett at Merc, Paul Brown at Adaptor Clothing, Stephen Hattersley at Carnaby Designs and Michael Stone at Brutus.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode, we're going to be talking about mod clothing, the history of mod clothing, and what exactly is a mod. We're going to be speaking to some founders and creative designers from some of the biggest names within the mod clothing industry. We have Phil Bickley, co-founder of Real Stars Are Rare, the brand whose other co-founder is none other than the Mod Father himself, Paul Weller.
SPEAKER_11Right from the start, we always it didn't we didn't want it to be just about poor Weller. Real stars are rare and we believe it now. And going forward it's gonna be more the case. Real Stars Are Rare is Real Stars Are Rare. It's we want it to be a brand in its own right. We want it to be able to stand up independently of poor.
SPEAKER_02We're also gonna be joined by Phil Daniels, star of Quadrafinia. So Phil, which way do you reckon the mod clothing industry is heading?
SPEAKER_05Well, I don't know, it's just it just it seems like everything's going backwards, that's all.
SPEAKER_02Hold that thought, Phil. We're also gonna be speaking to Andy Thompson, he's the head of UK for Merck. I'm gonna ask him exactly what a mod is.
SPEAKER_07You know, you were kind of against society and and and the way people dressed, uh, and uh and it was a way to look smart, actually, you know. Um the hairstyle and everything I think was influenced by the times of like the new small faces and people like that. Um, you know, and your enemies were the rockers, so you you were the ones that were smart guys and you wear suits and it was it was to look sharp, it was to look edgy, and it was to be noticed, really.
SPEAKER_02That interview coming up shortly. So, Phil, you're a little bit quiet over there. What are your thoughts on what a mod is?
SPEAKER_05Well, I can't think straight at all. I mean, nothing seems like that apart from Brighton.
SPEAKER_02Alright, Phil, yeah, we'll come back to Brighton in a bit. We're also gonna be talking to Paul Brown over Adapter Clothing. He's gonna give us his take on what a mod is.
SPEAKER_01You know, most kids, if you grabbed them and said, you know, do you know what mod is, they would say no. And that's quite a healthy environment for mod to exist in because they're gonna start asking questions and they're gonna want to start getting involved in it.
SPEAKER_02That interview with Paul Brown coming up shortly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, wait, will that uh brighten this weekend, like?
SPEAKER_02Bright and bright and bright, that's all I ever hear from you. Although we will be speaking to Stephen Hattersley from Carnaby Designs, we're gonna be talking helmets and all things scooters. Um Stephen, thanks for taking the time out. How would you like me to introduce you to the podcast? Is it Stephen uh oh sorry, your surname just escaped me?
SPEAKER_06Uh Hattersley. Stephen Hattersley. As in Roy, no relation, don't put that in the introduction.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, Stephen, couldn't resist. You like scooters, don't you, Phil? Exactly. And lastly, we're going to be talking to Michael Stone over at Brutus. He's going to tell us whether there's any collaborations with Sting in the pipeline. And can we expect another single or collaboration with Sting anytime soon?
SPEAKER_08Maybe not Sting. Maybe not Sting.
SPEAKER_02It's not cool anymore.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, certainly not Sting, but I don't know, I think they'd they'd probably come up with somebody a lot cooler than that.
SPEAKER_02So a bumper pack show coming up for you today. Are you ready for this one, Phil?
SPEAKER_04Why don't you just turn over and do a few underwater farms, eh?
SPEAKER_02Tell him, Ray.
SPEAKER_04Why don't you just fuck off?
SPEAKER_02Ah, quadrafinia. Okay, so let's start the podcast with that interview with co-founder of Real Stars Are Rare, Phil Bickley. So on the podcast now we have Phil Bickley, co-founder of Real Stars Are Rare. How are you doing, Phil?
SPEAKER_11I'm good, thanks. Excellent. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02I'm awesome. Thanks for taking the time out to speak to me. So, Phil, uh, tell us a little bit, please, about Real Stars Are Rare. How long's it been going and how you founded the brand?
SPEAKER_11Um, Real Stars Are Rare uh formed in 2014. We launched September 14. And it was it was it was it was just something we started after a a conversation um with Paul in the shop. I've got my shop on Portobello Road uh called Tonic, and Paul was uh a a frequent visitor and we would spend a lot of time. He'd come in, we'd have a coffee and chat about clothes and ideas and different aspects of making clothes, and and it was uh it was an idea that kind of grew from those early conversations. Paul had always wanted to you know, he's he's been involved in various clothing collaborations prior to Real Stars Are Rare, and he'd always quite fancied doing something a little bit more um in line with what he he his vision for what nice clothes are. So it was it was it came out of those early conversations and it was a um an idea that sort of gained traction uh over over time until we got to a point and said, well let's let's let's let's let's do it.
SPEAKER_02Tell us a little bit about the ambition of the brand. You're not looking to do anything massive in terms of mass production, um, but something more limited and a bit more exclusive. Is that the plan still?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I I mean it was always the ethos behind Real Stars Area was always um and it still is, uh is making is making good clothes and and and and good quality clothes and and class, you know, it's c it's pretty classic, it's it's it's it's it's understated and and and it's about using good fabrics, not making big numbers. I mean people are people even our existing customers now don't really realise just how few of an item we actually make. You know, it's it's not it's you know we might make 50 of a top, and and and that's and that's always the way we wanted to do it. It's it's kind of limited edition by its nature. Um and that's something that we think is quite cool, you know. That uh you know it it it's it's it's something that goes against sort of the mass production um model that it that is out there. You know, people are just making big numbers of items, and that's not something that we wanted. We always wanted to make uh you know limited runs of of good quality.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Phil, uh, we spoke briefly yesterday about the brand and a couple of times before. Uh obviously having Paul on board, you're gonna have that connection with mod clothing, and but it's not necessarily tailored for mods, is it?
SPEAKER_10No, no, no, not at all.
SPEAKER_11You know, it's um yeah yeah, Paul Paul, everything that Paul does has um uh has uh its kind of origins in in mod and and he would you know he'd be first to admit that and and and that and that's fine, you know, that that's totally cool. But um for real stars are rare, it it it nods in that direction, but it it's not it's not purely about that, it it's about um it's about classic clothes that are good quality and and and that anyone would buy into. It's it's stuff that's wearable, it's it's um it's it's it's it's stuff that people will invest money in because it it it's it's well made and and and it's a good fabric and um and yeah it it certainly it nods in that in in that uh that direction.
SPEAKER_02And how hands-on is he with the designs and how many conversations do you have with him about the designs and about the brand itself? Is it like a does he pick up the phone to you like once a week or how does it work?
SPEAKER_11Well he's got his other job, which takes up a bit of his time as well. Um so we we kind of fit it in um around around that. But you know, I've got my other job, you know, tonic is is is is is my business, so uh we kind of make it work. Um we we fit it around our full-time jobs, if you know what I mean. And but he he's he's very hands-on. He he he he comes up with the the the ideas, the concepts, you know. Paul's got a pretty good um back catalogue of uh of of clothes himself, you know, that he's that he's that he maybe some of the things he's had for years, some of the manure things, and and and we they're they're where the early ideas come from. And and Paul's you know, he those kind of people are creative, um you know, and and he's creative um in the obvious in his his his music career, but that he's also creative in in other things he turns aside to. So, you know, he he he'll sit and while he's away touring or whatever, he he'll be he's constantly scribbling things down and ideas and little sketches and stuff, and quite often we'll get together and we'll he'll he'll give me a load of sketches and go, Oh, I've thought about doing something like this and what you think about this and and and then we'll you know I'll I'll I'll say I'll look at the the idea and work out if it how how it could be taken from from that sketch to into a garment through you know my production background and and and my ability to to um realise the the drawing. But yeah, it it all the ideas initially will well yeah, they'll come from him, but then I'll say, Well, maybe what about this and what about this and or we'll see something, I'll see something, and we go, Oh, this would be cool, and he go, Oh, yeah, that'd be great. So it's yeah, a lot of the original ideas come from his sketches or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Well, that makes sense. I mean, I I remember meeting Paul at your launch at Somerset House and speaking to him, and he said, Look, I'm not gonna create anything or put my name on anything that I wouldn't wear myself. But when I first saw the website was released, it was almost like Paul was hidden. Um he was like overly modest that he wasn't at the front of the brand. Um looking at your website now, he's obviously got him himself on the home page wearing a lot of the clobber. Was that a conscious decision, or was he just thinking, look, I like the look of this stuff, let's uh let's let's get the cash register front and centre?
SPEAKER_11I guess it was a bit of both actually. Um you know, when we did when we first launched, we didn't and and um we did yeah, we didn't want to overplay the the Paul Weller thing. We you know, we wanted um it was partly, I guess, you know, he's also worried about any implications that anything else he does ab beyond what he's completely in control of truly reflects what he's about. So when we first launched Real Stars Array, it was like, well, let's just let's just kind of do it a little bit low-key and and and see where it goes from there. And and then as we've kind of done more things and and and were happy that it was able to represent him personally and his own brand as such, you know, Paul Weller is a you know brand in his in himself, but you know, as that aligned more with him, as real stars are aligned more with him, then it was then we were able to start um using his his his his um his name a little bit, yeah, a little bit more, and also it's you know it's good for the brand. And and but it you know, it was it it was a good you know, we never wanted to overplay it, and we don't want to overplay it. We you know, we're working at the moment about taking the brand forward and and and it was always about right from the start, we always it didn't we didn't want it to be just about poor weather. It you know, real sales are rare and we believe it now, and going forward it's gonna be more the case. Real sales are rare is real stars are rare. It's we want it to be a brand in its own right. We want it to be able to stand up independently of poor and and stand up as a respected clothes brand that has that makes clothes for the right reasons with the right kind of quality that people like and and the fact that Paul Well is involved is just an interesting side fact.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh and for the future of Real Stars Arrare, I see it's on your site, and if anyone else wants to check that out, it's obviously realstarsarrare.com but also tonicuk.com. Uh are you looking to get it out in other outlets or you do you like that exclusivity that it's under your roof?
SPEAKER_11Um a bit of both, yeah. We uh the the next 12 months we are we're looking at ways now to to um take the brand to the next level as such. Um we we've you know we've been out there for two years now. We we we did consider wholesale at the start, but we we made a decision not to to go down that route and that's that you know that's one of the benefits that having Paul's name has given us because uh you know um we didn't need to have to um to go down the wholesale route straight away. So um but it is something that we will we'll that we're looking to to grow in the next year. But we're we're not gonna um we're not gonna uh expand quickly. We're gonna you know, if we do take on wholesale customers, they'll be the ones that understand the product and uh that are buying it for the right reason because real stars are rare is a a great brand in its own right and not buying it because it's poor weather clothes brand.
SPEAKER_02A tenuous tangential mod clothing question. How many times have you seen Quadrafinia?
SPEAKER_11Um I don't know, not not very, not very many, maybe twice.
SPEAKER_10I it's um yeah, it's I and I never I was never really into that that film that much, I'd say. Um I think uh what's the director's name of it?
SPEAKER_02Uh is it Frank Frank Ludham?
SPEAKER_11Frank Ludham, Frank Luddham. Yeah, he's actually Frank is actually a customer of mine at Tonic. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, so we talk about it a bit, actually. Um and he's been coming to me for a a few years actually. Um but yeah, I was never really I I kinda like it, it's alright. Um and you know, it's control, but I I was never that into it. I've maybe seen it twice.
SPEAKER_02Well, Phil, if you ever get hold of Frank in the next couple of hours, tell him I've been desperately trying to get him on the podcast. So really, yeah. So uh if you could uh facilitate that, that'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, well I'll I'll do my best.
SPEAKER_02In the meantime, uh people should still check out your site and your shop on Portobello Road at tonic and tonicuk.com. You've got some great brands on there, mate. I love Universal Works, uh Barracut is on there as well, as many others, so um everyone should head over there and check out the stuff. Uh thanks, Phil.
SPEAKER_11Problems, mate. Alright, take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_02Cheers, bye bye. Phil Bickley there. Well, we've got a lot to cram in this week, so we're gonna shoot on through to the second interview, which is with Andrew Thompset from Merck. Okay, so on the podcast now we have Andrew Thompset, head of UK and wholesale for Merck. How are you doing, Andrew?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, very good, thank you very much indeed.
SPEAKER_02Andrew, uh could you just give us a little bit of insight about Merck, uh, the history, and just kind of colour us in with the background, how it started, please.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, sure. Um it was set up in 1967 by a wonderful man called Jarved Alavi. Uh, he came over penniless from uh what was um Iran and uh obviously saw an opportunity in this country, and uh he came to work uh originally in a restaurant, actually, initially, and very quickly he got into the clothing trade um and set up a stall in Ganton Street near Carnaby Street. Um and during that time in the late 60s, we all know what was going on there, and even though he was selling mods and inventing his rumoured button-down shirts and things like that, you know, he was also importing jeans from America, uh, original Levi's for like two pounds and selling them for five pounds.
SPEAKER_00Oh, great.
SPEAKER_07Um so he was really a clothing entrepreneur, and naturally at those times, the late 60s, uh certainly uh before he got his one of his first stores, um, he managed to find that you know it was the the the mods, the skinheads, the northern soul crowd, you know, all all the Oix, I think, or uh a wonderful Glaswegian customer gave us another name from which I can't remember right now. Um but basically all the the kind of fashion people of that day uh seemed to gravitate towards Carnaby Street, and he kind of uh got involved in that motion. I mean, he he worked with brands like Ben Sherman, he's worked with brands like Farrow, we stopped those uh years ago back in the store, and he very quickly decided he needed to uh to to work with his own brand.
SPEAKER_02Right, okay. Um and what's his role within the company today? Is he is he still quite hands-on? Does he do anything with the designs?
SPEAKER_07Uh less so. Jarved is always hands-on. You know, when he comes here, we stand to attention and you have to have everything ready to tell him. He's he's his his mind is absolutely remarkable. He's a a wonderful human being and and frankly a great inspiration. Um at the moment, the business is run by his two siblings, uh, two uh two children and their siblings, and um, you know, we we're very much involved, you know. There's a lot of what we do is what we did before, but also we're introducing a lot of new things as well.
SPEAKER_02Andrew, um, when people ask you, I've had this question asked to me a few times, I've never had a really good answer, uh, even though I kind of know the technical answer. What is a mod? Could you crystallize that or do you have a stock answer when people ask that to you?
SPEAKER_07I don't have a it's a very, very good question. What is a mod? It it was um it kind of it kind of came through in the sort of early 60s, and it was really uh a way of dressing and a code, I believe, and and and you know, you were sort of kind of you know, you were kind of against society and and and the way people dressed, uh and and and it was a way to look smart, actually, you know. Um the hairstyle and everything, I think, was influenced by the times of like the new small faces and people like that. Um, you know, and your enemies were the rockers, so you you you were the ones that were smart guys and you wear suits, and it was it was to look sharp, it was to look edgy, and it was to be noticed, really, um, when things were obviously quite difficult. And at the time, if you think the you know it didn't last for very long because you had like the uh the you know, the love and all the big festivals in the States, you know, and it was all hippie for a while. So the mods really kind of stuck out and really, if you like, became unfashionable incredibly quickly, and I think that's why it became a cult a cult thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and how is it different now? I mean, uh I mean is there still any animosity between the mods and the rockers, or is that even a thing anymore, or did that die out in Brighton?
SPEAKER_07I don't think so, but I mean what uh mods are just one of the British subcultures that exist, you know. I mean, I remember growing up, you know, in near Chelsea and you had the skinheads in in in in Chelsea Football Club and they were fearsome people. Um, you know, and they the skinheads of today are actually just people how they look with tattoos. I mean, if you saw someone today with tattoos and you know, and a shaved head in a in a Merck Neddy shirt, you'd have been terrified years ago, whereas now it's just a way of expressing yourselves, much like the punks did. Um, and and your Northern Soul Brothers, your scar, you know, with all of that movement. And the wonderful thing about Merck is yes, he kind of was established during that mod time, but you've got to remember it was only two or three years. And even today, you've got people like Paul Weller and you know, uh people like that who who still like that ethos and that look and that point of difference in society.
SPEAKER_02Um, where do you think mod clothing kind of sits within the industry today? Do you think it had a peak in the nineties and then maybe a dip? And is there a renaissance going on now? How do you how do you perceive it from um from your industry?
SPEAKER_07It's only a renaissance, and and we we struggle with names to call it. I mean, a hideous one is modern mod, you know. I think you know, there's parking sorry?
SPEAKER_02Sorry, I just I've not heard of the modern mod.
SPEAKER_07Yes, well, we kind of use that internally, I mean, because you've got a lot of new brands and retailers have created the brands, and there's obviously a lot of interest. And I I I think to be honest, because there's so little in fashion going on, really. I mean, apart from getting men into skinny jeans, nothing's much happened in the last 10 years in in in fashion sense. Um, so I think people harp back to the past of like when clothes and and style were interesting, which it certainly was at those, you know, in in those times. And uh, I think that's why it it is relevant today, but it's not just mod, you know, you've got the skinny revival, you've got the scar revival, and Pauline Black's always on TV. You know, there's a lot of interest in it, and I think you've got nostalgia from the forty, fifty, sixty year old, and then you've got the younger, you know, younger generation, you know, who who still want to relive those fantastic times, uh I guess.
SPEAKER_02It's always seems to me that there's been a marriage, like a symbiotic relationship between music and the clothing industry. So especially with like mod clothing, is there any bands out there? I mean I've I've kind of gone off the radar with bands recently. I think it's an old age thing. Um but any of the bands coming up, like a any modern day contemporary bands that are embracing the mod culture that you look towards?
SPEAKER_07There's been a good few. I mean, you know, one that springs to mind because we've used their music in in various sort of look books and things we've done is the rifles, of course. Um I wouldn't say they're an out and out mod band, but they certainly wear the look. And a terrific brand, still filling you know big venues and doing extremely well. That's an example. And over the time, I mean, you've had lots of different I mean, you know, Damon Album is always in the shop wearing his Merck, uh, Harrington. Um, we kind of go through sort of different generations, and like you said, you know, music has changed enormously, but definitely uh clothing is associated with music, and the difference is there's just so many bands. You've got you know the Spitfires in from from Ireland, you've got all these different uh smaller bands, and there's so many of them. You know, Joe Boyd always wears uh Merc Harrington's on every one of his sort of gigs and everything, and he's he's he's another example of a younger artist that we help and support wherever we can. I mean, there's an army of them, an absolute army of them.
SPEAKER_02Cool. Well, look at I'll have to I've I've heard of the rifles, I'll have to have a look at all the other bands. There we are. Check them out, they're fantastic. Um normally I just turn to my uh my nephew and niece and say, What's happening in the music industry these days? I mean, they're only like eight and eight and five.
SPEAKER_07You know, I'm I've I'm very close to the music industry. We're all going to a gig tomorrow night, the Discovery 2 at 229. I mean, we're always in these young kind of showcase nights, and we're always looking and supporting and getting involved with the young bands. And Merck in the past has sponsored the Cure Wards. We we're very much involved with music, that makes us tick, to be honest. It's always on in the office, and you know, I'm I'm sitting in behind uh in front of a very uh worn-out quadrufenia poster, you know. You know, music is abound, and and you think with Spotify and how it's all changed nowadays, everyone's got so much more access to different music.
SPEAKER_02Well, Andrew, that's gonna lead me on to my last question, the most tangential question. Uh I've asked every other guest this, but how many times have you seen Quadrofinia?
SPEAKER_07Oh, very good question. Oh, it's gotta be about eight. And I've seen stage play, I've seen stage productions, local ones as well as big ones, and uh it's always out there, and uh it's uh it's a very important film.
SPEAKER_02Any uh future collaborations in mind for Merck? Uh and what can we expect for the next season?
SPEAKER_07Well, uh it's an interesting time for us because uh 2017 is the 50th anniversary of the brand, obviously, as we started in '67, so we've got uh some new collections, some new exclusive collections, which we're working with uh you know some fairly major players. There's gonna be uh a bit of excitement out there. I'm not I can't reveal everything because it'll spoil the party, but uh we are looking at doing sort of various commemoration things. We've done a 50th Harrington that's a unique uh piece uh that we pre-sold incredibly well into retail, so that'll be out in sort of February, March into the shops. Um so watch this space, but uh 50 years and you know there are other companies who are also a similar age that uh that we're also talking discussing with uh collaborations and things like things like that. So there's some exciting things in the pipeline.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Uh I guess if you want to watch this space, it'll be over at Merck.com where you can see all the all the collections over there. Correct. Excellent. Thank you, Andrew. Thanks for taking the time out. I've enjoyed this.
SPEAKER_07Thank you very much, Peter. Very nice to talk to you, and uh it's a great blog, and uh you everyone should check it out.
SPEAKER_02Andrew Thompson there with some kind words about our blog, which actually can be found over at menswearstyle.co.uk if you're not there already. Okay, so what do you think of that, Phil?
SPEAKER_05Well, I don't want to be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a mud, see?
SPEAKER_02Everybody else. Okay, so we're gonna move on now. We're gonna speak to Paul Brown from Adaptor Clothing. Okay, joining us on the podcast now. We have Paul Brown, Creative Director from Adaptor Clothing. How are you doing, Paul?
SPEAKER_01I'm very good, how are you?
SPEAKER_02Good stuff, yeah, very well, thanks. Paul, uh, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself, please, and tell us a bit about Adaptor Clothing?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I have been working here for five years. Um I I used to work for uh Top Man, uh very much into the indie music culture, which is obviously intrinsically linked with with the mod scene, most certainly. Um I joined uh I'm working for uh my boss Phil here. Um and he and I work really, really well together. Um and when I joined, it was it was an eBay retailer primarily, um, but now we are really focused on the mod thing, definitely the skinhead thing, the rude boy thing, um, and just trying to create uh an environment where people that come to the website are kind of swallowed up in the whole uh culture around the clothing as well. I mean, you know, music, the the street culture, the clothing, it's all part of the same thing. So that that's my involvement here. I I kind of creatively oversee uh what we produce and and how we uh promote ourselves out there in the open.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. And if anyone wants to check that out, I highly recommend they do. It's adaptorclothing.com. Um and it's not just brands and clothing, like you say there, there's blogs on um bands, interviews, everything really. It's a big hub for mod culture, so I do recommend people check that out. Um so, Paul, personally, what got you into the mod culture?
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, uh like yourself, really, really into the indie thing, the music thing. Um, you know, I was very, very young doing the the Brit Pop thing. I I'm 30 now, so I was sort of 12, 3 or not even 12, was I? I was yeah, less than 10 when uh the Brit Pop thing really kicked off. Followed that all the way through, and of course, alongside you pick up bands like The Who and The Kinks and everything else. Uh, and then the indie boom happened with bands like The Strokes, the White Stripes, and everything else. And while you know they're not moddy bands, they are definitely influenced by kind of all things cool and retro. Um, and you're looking at the the way these guys dress, and you think, well, you know, they look great on stage, uh, they must live the lifestyle, and you kind of find out more about these bands, and you realise that you know these guys live and breathe it every day. Um, and again, the indie thing, the Brit Pop thing, the mod thing, they're all very, very similar. They they're the same thing just in a different decade. Um, so you know, and also it's that you know, these guys look super, super cool as well, and it was really about uh trying to find out how to be as cool as these other guys.
SPEAKER_02You have like many other mod brands on your site, including your own adapter clothing. What was it what was the reasoning behind launching your own collection?
SPEAKER_01Okay, well there are lots and lots of reasons. Um this is quite a competitive uh marketplace, you know. While there are probably only half a dozen other brands out there stocking, you know, similar lifestyle brands. Um for us, setting up our own brand was an opportunity to kind of break away from that and not have to get too involved in in the competition around that, and also just try and bring something new. And we've got plenty of ideas here, um, but none of these other brands uh are are making this stuff. And and um to kind of elaborate on that a little bit, brands like Ben Sherman, uh Merck, Fred Perry, although you know you consider them the the lifeblood of of mod clothing, actually they're kind of desperate to break away from that um and be something bigger than than their mod heritage, which is great, but of course, you know, year on year we were waiting for Ben Sherman, you know, to bring along the the next best thing, you know, in the Czech shirts and that, and they just weren't delivering. So we just said enough is enough, we'll go out there and we'll make our own thing. Um and it started with the suits, it grew into knitwear, into shirting. Um our knitwear now is all made out of Italy, so we're talking, you know, again about the heritage of you know what mod clothing should really really be. Um again, it just gives us that creative uh I don't know what you want to call it, but you know, the the creative license, I suppose, to just try something different and test the market a little bit and and put something different out there that's unique and interesting, and you know, I that that's our viewpoint, you know, we're confident in doing that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you you mentioned the Italian um influence there as well. I mean that's kind of where it all began, really, for the mod culture in the 60s when you have um elements of the mod subculture that would be often tailor-made suits, and these suits would be Italian fabric and Italian tailoring as well.
SPEAKER_01Well, there's there's something sort of fascinating about that actually, because you know, people I think around the world, whether you know we've got uh customers in the States and in Europe and everything else, to them the mod thing is is quintessentially British. Um for myself, uh while while I appreciate that that there is some truth to that, actually I feel that like if you were an original mod back in the 60s, you were looking to France and America and Italy for your inspiration. So actually, you were trying to replicate everything that you saw outside of Britain and that wasn't British. Um, and now 50 years down the line, mod is everyone you know around the world really trying to represent that British look, which I find really fascinating. It's kind of you know a weird backward situation in some ways.
SPEAKER_02It's almost chasing its own tail in a way, isn't it? So it is exactly. Um so how has the attitude changed? I mean, obviously, you had the the birth of it in the 60s, maybe a renaissance in the 90s with the Brit Pop culture. Well, how is it now, and where do you think mod clothing sits within the industry?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I think we're that far away now from the original movement that it is just considered classic British menswear. Um, you know, although it's always been very, very streetwise and very, very cool and had a lot of attitude, uh, it has become something that a guy in their 60s can wear, as well as somebody who's 16. I know that there's uh you have to be careful with that, but but fundamentally that's still true. So um where it sits right now, as I say, is is considered just to be very, very classic, uh you know, kind of uh timeless um and kind of hasn't dated, um, you know, because it it's constantly brought up to date, you know, with brands like Fred Perry and and Prissy Green who have put their sort of modern spin on it. Um I actually working in the mod market, I think probably its popularity at the minute in the contemporary world is probably the lowest it's been for 15 years, I would have said 10-15 years. It it's it's you know, people I feel like they've kind of seen it all before, and it is kind of regurgitated in a sense from decade to decade. Um, what needs to happen for the mod scene now to really take off is for some young guys to get back into it, which I know is happening already, but it's a case of um you know, Brit pop wasn't out and out mod, but it had elements of it. Indie was not out and out mod, but again, it had you know influences, so there needs to be a musical movement which we haven't seen since the likes of the mod uh the indie movement ten years ago that really captures the imagination of of you know young kids right now that are maybe slightly alternatively minded or whatever. Um there needs to be a scene to come along which mod can kind of adapt and become part of, which it has done with every music scene since the 60s, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I kind of get the idea because you can have too much of a good thing, like for example, when I was in the 90s and everyone and every other band was getting into the mod movement and you know wanting to look like Liam Gallagher, and then you'd think crikey Blimey, I need to find something else now because I'm just fitting in with everybody else. I guess everything has a cycle where it will come in, it will just be oversaturated, then people need to move away from it. The feel I have with uh mod mod movement is that had it had such a peak, it had such a high watermark of popularity that it you know it had really nowhere else to go, and it kind of just everything like everything else, it needs to have a bit of a rest, and then someone else needs to come back and pick it up by its shoestrings and say, Do you remember this? This was cool.
SPEAKER_01Well, mod i if you look at what's in the shops right now, there'll always be something that's that's intrinsically mod. So whether it's the Harrington or the Desert Boots or the Parker, they're on constant cycle. So something from the mod look will always be in the contemporary market. I know Desert Boots were big a couple of years back, they've kind of had their day now, but they'll always be something. But mod needs to now become so obscure from the mainstream that it becomes attractive to those guys again that want to be alternative and different. Um, you know, although I say its popularity is probably at the lowest it's been for about 10 years, it's almost got to a point now where it's you know, most kids, if you grabbed them and said, you know, do you know what mod is, they would say no. And that's quite a healthy environment for mod to exist in because they're gonna start asking questions and they're gonna want to start getting involved in it, and then it's a it's a passion that's driven by their personal search rather than what all their mates are doing, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02So, what's next for adapter clothing then, Paul?
SPEAKER_01Okay, um, we are again with a very competitive market, and we've got some of our competitors out there starting to develop their own brand stuff as well. We are conscious that we're wanting to keep one step ahead or two steps ahead where we can all the time, and you know, actually, you know, we're confident that we're kind of number one in the market for for what we do. Uh and in order to maintain that, you have to be brave, you know, because actually the path isn't laid out in front of you, you've got to make it up. Whereas if you're being followed by your competitors, you know, they've got targets on your back, so they know exactly what to shoot for. But for us, we kind of have to, we're the creators of our own destiny. So we are looking into um developing like our own fabric. So it's not about just product design anymore. We're we're talking about the fabrics that these things are made from and about getting those right before we even think about what the garment's gonna look like. We're getting really granular with the design here uh of products. We're gonna continue to produce stuff um in Italy because, again, the heritage of that is very, very important, and we're gonna start experimenting with with different ideas, um, and and also part of the design thing that's going on as well. Well, actually, uh it's probably easy to say that we've set up our own brand recently, which we're selling into other shops, uh, called GetUp. Ah, okay. This is really, really exciting and fun for us. So we're in kind of our our first proper debut season will be uh in January. Uh a lot of this stuff will be hitting shops, and what Get Up is, is I wouldn't call it a mod brand, it's just very retro inspired. So we're looking at all the things that were going on around mod at the same time. So, you know, we're looking to France, we're looking to Italy, we're looking to America, some of the sports wear that that people would be wearing, some of the slightly more unusual formal wear. Um, so while all mods would look at it and get it and know exactly what it's all about, it's gonna have broader appeal as well. So, uh and part of uh of the the USP of this brand is gonna be colour, definitely. I mean, it's so easy when you run a mod brand to make everything in burgundy, navy, and and black, etc. We're wanting to look a little bit beyond that, and we're looking at uh um nice browns, mustards, some greens, things like that. That's stuff that's gonna be specific to uh the debut season in spring summer six seventeen. Um yeah, so that's very, very exciting. So there's plenty going on here as far as you know uh pushing the envelope out.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. And your website once again is adaptoclothing.com, and I strongly recommend everyone has a has a mooch over there and check out what you guys are doing because it's uh it's the it's the Lord's work, Paul, what you're doing. Nice. Um lastly, Paul, a tangential question. How many times have you seen Quadrofinia?
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you what, it's something that I watch once a year just to uh it's like it's like medication almost. It just it it it re-fires you up um and just kind of reminds you, you know. Uh there's Quadrafinia exists in its own bubble in a way, uh um, which is quite a nice thing about it. But you know, the first time anyone sees that film, I don't care how mod or how modernist or super cool you are, that film was so so cool the first time you watch it, and that will always be true, and it's a great film anyway, whether you're a mod or not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so yeah, once a year uh I make sure I just sit down, give it all my time, and again, it just it just reinvigorates the kind of excitement and the the energy and the coolness about why we're all into this.
SPEAKER_02Paul Brown there from Adapter Clothing. And now time for a word from our sponsor. It's powerful stuff. So now we're gonna have a chat with Stephen Hattersley, managing director of Carnaby Designs. On the podcast now, I'd like to introduce Stephen Hattersley, Managing Director of Carnaby Designs. How are you doing, Stephen?
SPEAKER_06Absolutely fine, Peter. How are you?
SPEAKER_02I'm brilliant. Thanks. Uh Carnabydesigns.co.uk is the place to go, and they specialise in classic helmets uh for the discerning scooter rider. So, Stephen, tell us a little bit, please, about yourself and um the scooter, the Vesper, it's all part of the mod culture. Um, tell us a little bit about the company, please, and your role within it.
SPEAKER_06Um well, I set the company up about four years ago. It's one of those situations you hear about where um somebody wants something and you just can't find it. I've been riding scooters for about 12 years and I really wanted a full-face helmet. Uh, I kind of value my chin and I know how much it can hurt when it lands on tarmac. And uh I just couldn't find a nice full-face helmet that was scooter themed rather than motorbike themed, uh a million and one motorbike ones or plane ones, but I just wanted some which sat a bit more comfortably with the whole uh scooter and vesper ethos, so I just um had voluntary redundancy from where I was working, and I thought I'm actually going to do something about this. So I did, and that was four years ago, and we've sort of grown from there, really. So yeah, it's going well.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Okay, uh you're just online, there's uh no flagship store or anything like that.
SPEAKER_06We don't have a flagship store, no, but we've got about 15 dealers around the country. Um they're a mix of we try to sort of make it a bit different from normal. We've got some motorbike scooter dealers, but we've also got some mod clothing outlets, places like adapter clothing and places like that, which um just sort of on the same sort of level as us and um just know what they're doing on that sort of level and that sort of style of customer, really.
SPEAKER_02Excellent, cool. So Steve, I just wanted to ask you really about uh mod clothing in general. Um does anyone ever ask you what it what a mod is? And do you have like a stock reply?
SPEAKER_06Um I don't think anyone's got a decent reply to it, but I think they might have a stock reply. It's I I think it's hard to classify to be honest. I think it gets harder as time goes on. I mean, obviously, dating back to the 60s, um, I think the definition, whatever it was then, has probably changed significantly with each decade that's passed since then. Uh, and it really is hard to put your finger on it. I think it's more a state of mind and a way of wanting to be, really. And I if that sounds like I'm ducking the question, then it's probably true. I am, I really don't know how to define it, and I'd challenge anyone to do it really because I think we get a whole range of people sort of buying our helmets by way of example, and some of them are people who are around maybe not in the 60s but not far off it, uh, and other people who are born sort of 30 years later, you know. It's um there's a real mix of people, a real mix of styles and very eclectic, but all have a sort of a common theme, really, of wanting to look sharp and want to look a certain way.
SPEAKER_02Stephen, do you mind me asking how old you are?
SPEAKER_06Uh I forget myself sometimes. 47.
SPEAKER_0247, okay. So uh what got you into the mod era or the or the mod culture?
SPEAKER_06Uh the first time I was really into mods, it was through the scooter side of things, really. It was when I was a kid, I was about 11. Uh, I was waiting for the school bus, and this coolest kid in town was a guy called Andy Morgan. Um, and he was about 18. And our mums worked together, they were teachers. So, because Andy our mum's worked together, Andy would go past on his scooter, and he was the world's coolest person, I kid you not. And he would just give me this little raise of the finger, just a little wave to me as I went past, and I used to think I want to be as cool as that, and I want a scooter as soon as I can. Uh, and it took me a bit longer to get one, but um, I loved it. Um it's a great love having a scooter, I love the whole sort of uh the Vest for Lifestyle as well.
SPEAKER_02Awesome, cool. Well, I I mean I guess that's part of maybe why we can't crystallise or define what a mod is, is because as soon as somebody starts broadcasting the fact I'm a mod, um that's basically it it then becomes uncool, if you see what I mean.
SPEAKER_06I think it does, yeah. There's a subtlety to it, I think, and I I'd be a little suspicious um of of anyone who sort of did broadcast it too loudly that they're a mod because they might be trying bit too hard hard to be a mod, I think if they were so um I think it's a little bit more subtle than that to be honest.
SPEAKER_02So David, uh just lastly, how many times have you seen Quadrofinia?
SPEAKER_06Not as not as many as some, only about probably about half a dozen times I would say no more than that, which is a lot less than some.
SPEAKER_02Okay, great.
SPEAKER_06I don't I don't have enough I obviously don't have enough free time.
SPEAKER_02Well I I assumed with uh someone of your pedigree in the website it would be at least on a loop on the TV somewhere on the house it would just be playing in the background so you could watch it in every room but uh you would think so but I think I think I think part of being a mod's avoiding cliche sometimes so it might be just sort of one step too far early. Okay great. Listen cheers Stephen again if anyone wants to check out your website it's carnabedesigns.co dot uk and and roughly how much do the the helmets retail at?
SPEAKER_06Uh the helmets are all the same price 8999 and I say we've got about 15 dealers around the country and there's a link to all of them on our website and we sell them directly from there as well so by all means get in touch if anyone's interested.
SPEAKER_02Stephen Hattersley there and I do recommend you go check out his website. One more time Philosoph my favourite quote from any movie. Okay so we're going to finish off now with an interview with Michael Stone head of design over at Brutus Okay so on the podcast now I'd like to introduce Michael Stone Michael Stone is head of design down at Brutus. How are you doing Michael I'm really good really good. Okay is that alive because I know that you're in you've got some cold and some Lurgy going on there.
SPEAKER_09Yeah I know but um we don't want to talk about that I'm happy to be in London it's a good place if you could just uh for the uninitiated tell us a little bit about Brutus a little bit about the history of the brand please Brutus Brutus when I was growing up Brutus were as big as Levi's they were as big as Diesel they were just huge um for many years many many years we they did the check shirts you know they were up there with Ben Sherman with a button down mod shirt um fabulous business then went into denim and just apparently I I wasn't around at the time but apparently they sold more jeans than Levi's at the time I mean they were just huge um very iconic they even had yeah no we had like TV adverts and stuff one of which had Sting in very young Sting and put spawned a number one hit I think called Got My Brutus Jeans on which you know not many people are gonna know about but that they'll be Googling it now and it was quite a famous hit.
SPEAKER_02So they were a huge company um and about 20 years ago the the the owners decided that you know it it were going to go in a different direction and they did and that was it it it just lay dormant for a while until five years ago when the son of the owner Jonathan son of Keith brought it back again and went to the exactly the same factories that we'd used 30 40 50 years ago to to make the jeans to make the shirts and it it's been going really well um so why sorry sorry to cut you off Michael um so around about 2000 I saw that they they took a bit of a hiatus um how come Jonathan who was it the son of Keith Friedman who was the founder so what inspired him to give this brand the kiss of life again?
SPEAKER_09I think it really it's just the resurgence of a nostalgic British heritage brand you know there are so many British brands that you know have just fallen by the wayside and you know maybe Jonathan didn't want Brutus to be one of them and he's he's done a fabulous job really really has kept that um purist element to it um you know and he he loves it absolutely loves it and he's gonna grow it and that's what I'm here for and we're gonna take it forward.
SPEAKER_02It's interesting that um Jonathan has gone back to Brutus I mean he must have a love affair obviously it's in the family it's in the blood but he hasn't gone out and said I'm gonna design my own brand I'm gonna make give it give it a different name even he's said right well this there was nothing wrong with this model in the first place let's just reintroduce it let's give it a facelift maybe tweak a few things here and there I'm guessing so yeah um so you are you're pretty much hands on with the design team around there what have you done differently to bring Brutus back into the modern day new colours uh new factories now um new fabrics you know things have moved on every every uh part of of fashion has moved on so we do still have the core shirts that are the same fabrics and the same um factory but we've also got some new product that's using new fabrics that's got the latest uh you know developments from the factories in it it's just up to date you know if if the technology and the resources were around 50 years ago Brutus would have used them 50 years ago and can we expect another single or collaboration with Sting anytime soon?
SPEAKER_09Maybe not Sting not Sting not cool anymore yeah certainly not Sting but I don't know I think they'd they'd probably come up with somebody a lot cooler than that.
SPEAKER_02Oh poor old Sting really good um listen so just a little bit on mod clothing itself how do you feel like uh the actual industry for mod clothing is going how do you feel like it's peaked and it's trough over the years is it heading for a peak now or is it heading for a plateau or is it doing a trough I well I I don't think it's in a trough I don't I'd not with people like um the Fred Perry around I don't think it will be in the trough and you know you've got the Lambrettas and you know Ben Sherman's going to be doing well again this year.
SPEAKER_09Um Merck pretty green no I don't think it's gonna trough very much a plateau.
SPEAKER_02And how do you see the other brands compared to you as well? Do you look at the other brands and going oh that's good they're doing well that means we can do well or are your contemporaries your competition as well when you look over your shoulder you think oh these guys are killing it how do we how do we compete against them?
SPEAKER_09How does it sit well that a lot if I said that we didn't look at other people I'd be like I and you know if other people said they didn't look at us and other brands they'd be like of course you do um yeah that there's people you look at and you think yeah they're they're they're doing it right I I don't want to say who they are I don't want to give them a big head but there there's a a couple of brands and you look at and you think that's where I want to be they're doing excellent work. And you you know on the flip side you look at some brands and you think you shouldn't have done that shouldn't have done that.
SPEAKER_02But I don't I don't want to name names we don't want to throw anyone under the bus. But if um if anyone wants to check out Brutus I recommend they do it's Brutus.london is that right Michael it is yes and there you'll see the history of the brand uh you'll see all of the collections that are coming out um any news for what's coming up in the future Michael like AW for Autumn Winter 17 Autumn 17 is going to be excellent for us um that's gonna be my first real um season when I've had some proper impact for um spring 17 we've just brought out a range of classics so it's like everything that everybody's always asking us for it's the the house check shirts the gingham shirts the Oxford shirts all the core staples just to get us through to autumn 17 um so for autumn 17 we're gonna come out we're gonna have fabulous polos we're gonna have fabulous graphic tees we're gonna have some lovely outerwear it's gonna be great can't wait for autumn 17 I started to get my protos and things in just this week and yeah really excited brilliant I look forward to seeing those and thanks again for coming on just to finish I have asked everyone this question so it's quite tangential but when was the last time you saw Quadrofinia and how many times have you seen Quadrofinia?
SPEAKER_09I've not seen it for a few years but I I'm I'm the youngest brother of uh of uh an old mod who probably watched it and played it in her our house the album a million times um so yeah I've not seen it for a while but I have a very good memory of it and I know all the songs and yeah I'm I'm very very familiar with it.
SPEAKER_02Michael Stone there. Thank you Michael thank you also to everyone else that chipped in this week thank you Phil Bickley from Real Stars are Rare, Andy Tompset from Merck, Paul Brown Adapter Clothing and Stephen Hattersley from Carnaby Designs. Cracky sounds like an acceptance speech I'd like to thank my producer I'd like to thank my writer and my wife my gorgeous wife where is she? Okay so this is it this is it for this week's podcast. If you want to head over to the Menswear Style site you'll find other podcasts blogs and really good competitions this week so that's mensweestyle.co.uk follow us on the social at menswear style also a quick thank you to Phil and Ray thanks guys why don't you just fuck off yeah fuck off awesome stuff okay also if you'd like to leave us a lovely five star review on iTunes that would help us get up the charts and keep me in a job. All the best guys bye
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