SPEAKER_07 0:12

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode, we're going to focus on the winning mentality, what it takes to be a champion. We're going to be talking to ex-heavyweight champion of the world, George Foreman.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Then after about 25 boxing matches, you real start thinking, man, nobody can even beat me. 37 boxing matches is impossible. Nobody can stand up to me. That's what you have, because you don't even know the feeling of defeat anymore. It doesn't even exist.

SPEAKER_07 0:47

Excellent stuff. Can't wait to get into that one. What do you think about that, Charlie? A good start. Yeah, we're off to a flyer. The first win. You're damn right. We're also going to be talking to seven times world snooker champion, Stephen Hendry.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

In terms of like attacking and quick snooker, we're pretty similar. But I just think I had I had um I had the the better the stronger mentality. I mean it's as simple as that. I mean, you know, Jim Jimmy's been in six world finals and failed to win any of them. So that shows you there's something missing there.

SPEAKER_07 1:17

Stand by for that banger of an interview. I'm sorry. Winning. Trying to get the cats up now. Yes, indeedy. And we're also going to finish off with a chat to high-end London life coach, speaker, and author, Michael Sterler.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

And I'll have to say to people to my clients that hey, listen, the fact that you're good at starting, the fact that you're doing a good job in the bank you work in, it doesn't fucking mean that they're supposed to spend the rest of their life there. Because if you are smart, and I would imagine the everyone listening to this podcast uh it's intelligent. If you are intelligent, you'll be good at more than one thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:51

Stand by for some wisdom from Michael there and from Stephen Hendrick. But first we're gonna talk to X heavyweight champion of the world, Torch Format. Are you first one? You are more just a little bit of housekeeping.uk, subscribe to us in iTunes, look for us on the social at Menswear Style, and there you'll find all the blogs, the competitions, and the interviews. Speaking of which, here is the interview with George Foreman. Welcome to the podcast. George Foreman, the one and only George Foreman. How are you doing, George?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

I'm great. Thank goodness. All is well for me.

SPEAKER_07 2:37

Excellent great. Okay, George, um, maybe well, let's just start from the beginning. In 1968, you were crowned the gold medal Olympic champion winning that fight in Mexico. Uh, can you just tell us a little bit about the lead up and what your memories are of of that tournament?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Uh my first time of actually experiencing what it is to be a celebrity because every day uh from Mexico City we'd go out if we decided to go near the gate to enter um or come in or go out of the Olympic village, people wanted your autograph, and I thought, wow, this is great. And I never did get over that part. I think at the ending, uh just at the as the ending and I was getting ready to fight in the finals, there was this big controversy in the Olympics that changed everything, at least the atmosphere. John Carlos and Tommy Smith demonstrated with the uh with the shoes in their hands and the and the black gloves on, and but uh that's what I have the memory of, but nothing topped the joy I experienced once I won that gold medal.

SPEAKER_07 3:43

Amazing. And can you remember anything about the fight it took?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Uh looking back at the fight, uh I had uh my opponent would be from Russia representing Russia, and I from the United States, and they talked then of the superpowers. So I was nervous because of the atmosphere outside of the ring and the talk in the media about how good he could be and how probably how good I could be. But other than that, it was just common boxing match where you get your butterflies in the dressing room and you try to shake 'em off before you get into the ring. That's why you jump up and down and bounce.

SPEAKER_07 4:19

Amazing. I and this might sound like a bit of a broad question, but c what do you really put it down to when you go out there and you win a match like that? I mean, obviously it's training, but you've got to get yourself into a mindset where you know you're gonna go out there and you have the confidence in your own ability.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, those few minutes actually a day leading up to the boxing match, and a few minutes that you walk into that ring, that walk is probably if you want to talk about a horror movie, walking from the dress room into that ring, then it's not about the fella, it's about what comes along with boxing, all of the butterflies and fears. And uh if you can overcome that once the bell ring, it it's an exciting event, but you're no longer nervous, it's just you, the crowd, and your opponent.

SPEAKER_07 5:07

Awesome. Uh so uh moving on after that you then turn professional, of course, and you went on a winning streak, uh, I think it was it 37 and oh uh thirty-five knockouts. So out of all those, did you at that point, was there some kind of aura of invincibility you felt and perhaps your opponents felt about you?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah, after about fifteen boxing matches, you realize then that hey, it's no fluke, I can punch, and it's hard for anyone to stand under my power. Uh then after about twenty-five boxing matches, you real start thinking, man, nobody can even beat me. Thirty-seven boxing matches is impossible. Nobody can stand up to me. That's what you have because you don't even know the feeling of defeat anymore. It doesn't even exist. Doesn't it doesn't doesn't even exist in your repertoire.

SPEAKER_07 5:56

And how do you carry that with you? So each time you go into a fight within that streak, you must be thinking, well, it's gotta end sometime, or do you just don't think it's gonna end? You're that confident.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Oh no, it's something that is given to you, this this this feeling that comes up on you, and it's like I can do anything. If I miss a hundred shots, the hundred and one shot is gonna be the one that knocked the guy out. And you start thinking, you know, sooner or later, even if I'm not the better, I've got some magical power in my fist that I'm gonna get him sooner or later. That's what you think you don't think about losing because that's not what you do.

SPEAKER_07 6:35

And and during that time, can you remember any of the opponents? I mean, before you met Joe Frazier, anyone that you thought this guy could have my number or this guy's gonna be a real threat.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

I never did think that. Uh coming up, you know, I had one fight after another, then I'd get into a couple of fights, and uh some guy would take every shot I had, and I thought, uh man, this is gonna James J. Woody, an opponent in New York City. He had been uh New York State uh heavyweight champion of the state. And I'd hit him and everything, and I got it all done, and I looked up and he was still coming after me, and I thought, hmm, is this the end of the magic?

SPEAKER_06 7:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

But then I started pounding, pounding, pounding. He still kept coming, and finally the referee stopped the boxing match.

unknown 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

That was the only time I felt like this could be the end. It could have been my less than ten fights. He just took it all and he kept coming.

SPEAKER_07 7:35

So George, when you first came on the scene, you had a very destructive style, often knocking out your opponents within the first couple of rounds. Did you have a favorite punch, an uppercut, or a right hook, something that you'd be looking to deliver?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

I threw so many punches and every now and then I'd see someone fall by way of one or the other. So it was not a preferred punch I had. Every punch I threw, it's just if I kept throwing them over and over, one would get you, and I'd look up and and I'd always say, I didn't know I could knock you out with that one.

SPEAKER_07 8:06

Awesome. Well you must you must have been pleasantly surprising yourself constantly.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah, I mean, it was uh it was something that was just happening to me, and if if I tell you I knew this knew what was gonna happen, I'd be lying.

SPEAKER_07 8:20

Yeah, interesting. So, George, you've knocked out Frasier, you've destroyed Norton. It's time to fight Muhammad Ali in Zaire. It's the Rumble of the Jungle documentary that I want to talk to you about. How do you think that documentary portrayed you?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Oh, you know, you look back and I'd get a knockout here and there. Sometimes I don't know where the punch had come from. Knock a guy out, so it'd be a wild shot. Then I'd read in the paper the next day George Foreman with this powerful punch and he'd worked on this big hook and uh he perfected it and knocked the guy out. And that that hadn't been really true. But it sounded good to me. So I I started saying, Yeah, that's right, that's right. So when you lose and you're betrayed and things are said and they're not accurate, there's no need to say, Hey, say this better 'cause I applauded when they said great things, whether they were true or not. Then I had I was betrayed in that uh rumble in the jungle and all of that as one guy and the other. Why should I complain then? Take the good, then you should be able to stomach the bad.

SPEAKER_07 9:33

Uh I mean I guess my first memory of you was when I woke up and found that you beat Michael Moore in ninety-four. And you were crowned heavyweight champion once again. Did you find it easier coming back as an underdog, like you did when you were with Joe Frazier and Kendall? And you were underdogs going into a fight, do you perform better when you have something to prove?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

No, I just didn't. I had this punch, and I still I had come back into boxing, made a comeback, and I found I still had that punch again. I didn't get overconfident like I had done with the Muhammad Ali fight. Uh I had fear when I fought Muhammad Ali, I didn't have any fear. I went in the dressing room, didn't have any fear. I thought this is the way you ought to be. The first time I'd gotten into the ring without fear, and I lost with to the to Mohammed Ali. This time I'd come back and I'd manufactured and regained my fear. And I had many knockouts. So getting ready to fight for that Michael Moore fight, the odds didn't mean anything to me. That didn't mean anything at all because I had this fear, and with this fear, I had this punch again.

SPEAKER_07 10:42

Wow, so you kind of channel that fear. Um how how do you do that or how can you utilize that fear?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Well, I knew that I'd lost the championship of the world back in the day because I didn't have any fear. And I before when I got in the ring with Joe Frazier, I couldn't control my knees shaking. I was so afraid of Joe Frazier. And of course I got a knockout. Then I won after another, got in the ring with Mohammed Ali, I said, no fear. So the second time around, I decided what was greater than my punch was my fear of getting beat. So every time I'd gotten into the ring that second time around, I had this fear of getting beat again. And with Michael Moore, it had peaked so much fear.

SPEAKER_07 11:28

So even after all them fights and all that experience, uh you were let's just say that um maybe is it complacency then when you don't get the fear that you're just too overconfident?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

I think that's that's a good word because more you do a thousand push-ups, thousand sit-ups, hit the bag for I don't know how many rounds, you spar for so many rounds, but without the fear ingredients, you are not in shape at all. I had gotten my fear back.

SPEAKER_07 11:56

That's awesome. That's almost like the next name for your book, George. Um could you tell us what a day in the life is like now for you?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Well, I live a good life now. I'm a by profession, I'm a evangelist at the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ in Houston. Three days a week when I'm in town, I have services. I conduct the service. I'm the chief speaker around there, and uh so I try to get that ready and I even pay attention to what's on the floor, as the floor's been swept. We also have a George Foreman Youth and Community C uh Center where the kids come in to practice boxing and working out and all that. I support it and I travel all over the country speaking to uh generate funds for that charity. And I speak. That's what I travel full time speaking, speaking and speaking and telling the George Foreman story. Hopefully it'll still inspire people 'cause I'd gone into the Hall of Fame and it's a story that everyone should be it uh uh should be aware of it. Especially young people, they should hear that story that their present state, doesn't matter how depressing it is, they can overcome.

SPEAKER_07 13:14

Just a little bit about the um the start of that then for you. So uh you said you had like this religious experience after you lost a fight to Jimmy Young, and it was that moment that was the tipping point where you gave up boxing and became a born-again Christian. What was that experience like? Uh and what was it exactly if you can put it into words?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Well, I went back into the dressing room cooling off. I was real hot. The air conditioner had gone out in Puerto Rico that night, and as I walked back and forth like I'd done before, trying to cool off, I was overcome. Just overcome with heat. I don't think I could make it. Then as I was walking and and talking and moving around, I started thinking like I'd normally done. I said, you know, I'd lost the boxing match on points. I said, fight doesn't mean anything. I'm still George Foreman, I've got money. I just signed a contract to do movies and television. I could go home now and retire and die. And I never thought that before in my life. I was overcome with you're gonna die. And I thought I'd heard about athletes standing in the dressing room, but I never thought that could happen to me. But I fought, fought, fought. I heard a voice within me say, Uh, you believe in God, why are you scared to die? And I was afraid. I didn't want to die. I had everything to live for, and I didn't want people to think I was dying because of a boxing match. But anyway, I try to make a deal. After a while, I knew that voice was God. I said, I I I got I'm still George Palmer. I can give money to charity and for cancer, and a voice hurt answered me back within and said, I don't want your money, I want you. Before I could say another word, I was dead out of this life. Over my head, under my feet, nothing. If you explain what death is, death is nothing. It was like a dump yard of every sad thought I'd ever had in my life, and there was no more me. And I looked behind me and saw my money, my real estate investment, everything just crumbled like ashes, like you stick uh fire to a piece of paper and it just crumbled. I saw that and I got mad because in this dumpyard, there wasn't any hope for me, like someone had dropped me off in the seat. I said, I don't care if this is death, I still believe that's a God. And I just gave up. When I did, a gigantic hand reached in and pulled me out. I was alive in that dressing room again, screaming. Screaming. Evidently they picked me off the floor and my doctor was standing behind me, Dr. West. I said, Move your hand, Doc. He's bleeding from the the thorns on his head are making him bleed. And I looked at my hand, I told my masua, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Fuller, he's bl look, move your hand, he's bleeding w where they crucified it. No, the yeah, he's bleeding, his hands are bleeding. And I start screaming, Jesus Christ is coming alive in me, and that was 1977, and I'm still telling that story. It shocked me because scared, I I I try to say, you know, you got hit, George, or all kind of excuses, but the smell of death you never lose you never forget it. It was a horrible smell. And even as I speak with you, I can even s smell it again. I've never forgotten that. For ten years I didn't even make a fist. I didn't go back into my gym. I stopped boxing. I became an evangelist. People call you brother, revan, I stopped preaching funerals. I was ordained in seventy-nine uh at the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that's what I'm doing to this day. That's what happened in that dressing room.

SPEAKER_07 16:45

Wow, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. When you did find boxing again and you did return to the ring. Uh trying to pair that uh power of Christianity with boxing, uh, was there any conflict in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

You know, I'd I'd love boxing because I I used to hit that punching bag. And it would always be Mohammed Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, you named them, uh uh Josh Chevallo, I'd be hitting that bag and that's who I'd be hitting. Then after I had this experience, the bag was a piece of le leather, just hard leather, just a rag. And that's why I stopped. I didn't have any anyone I all the hate was gone. So I go down to the gym, I started the youth center in Houston because these kids were getting in trouble and I put my money up that I'd saved uh to retire on. And the kids would come in with chips on their shoulder. And I said, No, you don't have to try to hurt anybody. You don't have to get angry and I sh taught them how to box. And the point was never a punch in anger. I said, Defend yourself. And I let I showed 'em how to defend themselves and then when kids who couldn't fight would come in the gym, I let them spar with them and they would just make those kids just get tired. And I said, Don't hurt them now. You got 'em tired. You don't have to hurt 'em. So with that I learned how to box. And my thing was never a punch in anger. And so I was easily able to get back into boxing. There wasn't the old George Foreman was dead. This was a profession for me. It was a way to make a living, and I never tried to hurt anyone. Boxing is the grandpa of ping pong. And you couldn't if without boxing we wouldn't have had it.

SPEAKER_07 18:29

Why did it why did the Tyson fight not happen in ninety one, despite both of you wanting that fight to go ahead?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, the the Tyson fight is is a strange thing because he could really punch. What a beautiful he had this delivery of quickness to the temple. And everybody figured, well, George, you know, you from Joe Frazier, they compared them styles. And I think that Tyson Camp always looked at it that he could have been maybe a pattern for another Joe Frazier matchup. And so they kind of they were weary of a George Foreman fight. And it wasn't like I was begging to fight Mike Tyson either, because what a puncher and a fearful punch. I mean, dreaded puncher. I didn't want him either. So one was scared and the other was glad of it. He didn't want me, and I certainly would didn't want to beg for him, but making my comeback in those times, I really needed him more than he needed me.

SPEAKER_07 19:29

I see. And what are your relationships like now with other boxers around? I mean, of that time, I just spoke to Evander Holyfield a couple of weeks ago. You know, he actually fought you and you went the whole twelve rounds. I mean, that was incredible. So do you ever come across these guys? Do you ever speak to them?

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah, these days when you see them, you realize what a prize they are. Evander Holyfield, and then after losing Mohammed Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, you realize what a prize Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, uh, and the likes, what they really are now. These are I'm so happy I love those guys. And we get together, it's really a wonderful time because we can smile and make jokes at what we used to call threats. We enjoy one another. I love them when I see them. There's so much to talk about.

SPEAKER_07 20:17

Just lastly, George, a a rather tenuous question, but do you have a favorite boxing film?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Uh film, you mean movie or movie, yeah. Oh, yeah, there are so many good movies. My favorite is called with Humphrey Bogart, way back, an old movie in black and white, is called The Hotter They Fall.

SPEAKER_07 20:38

The Hotter They Fall. That's a boxing film?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

It's a boxing movie. Sorry, Humphrey Bogart. The Heart Of They Fall. It's the true story, it's the true story of boxing.

SPEAKER_07 20:51

George Foreman there. What a privilege it was to speak to George. So, Charlie, tell me a little bit about your life. Your everyday. How do you spend your life winning? And what do you say to the people that try to bring you to the city? Okay, so we're gonna have a chat now with seven times world snooker champions. Someone that knows a thing or two about the winning mentality of Stephen Hendry. On the podcast now, we're speaking to Stephen Hendry. Seven times world Snooker Champion. How are you doing, Stephen? I'm very well, thanks. Excellent, great. Well, as a Snooker fan, this is a huge treat. Stephen, could you just give us a little bit of a backstory of what got you into Snooker? And what it takes, what minerals are required to win a world championship seven times.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Um well, I I mean I first I first got into Snooker, I was given a small table, a toy table, um, which is about a quarter the size of a full size one for my uh Christmas sort of two weeks before my thirteenth birthday. Um I'd never played Snooker before, n watching occur. Um so yeah it w it was uh it was a complete surprise as a present. Um but when I cut within a couple of weeks I I I was making fifty breaks in it. Um didn't really realize I was that good but obviously I th I just thought it was something everyone could play. It wasn't really until I started moving, you know, go go to the local club and playing people, playing my mates and playing my dad and my relatives I thought you know there might be something in it. So obviously you know answering the sort of second part of your question talent. You've got to be born with a talent to play snooker. Um you and you're if you're born without the talent you know there's no way you're going to be become a professional and be successful. Um but sort of allied to that is obviously a lot of hard work. Um my manager that took me on when I was sort of 15, 16 prior to turning pro at 16 instilled in me a a a tremendous work ethic work ethic that that did me sort of practice six, seven hours a day, seven days a week. Right, well so so yeah yeah yeah and and and I think in all sports you have you have to really work hard. But I think in individual sports um it it's even more important um like golf and you just have to because it's all about repetition um and and and repeating and repeating the the things over and over and over again. But then when you get to obviously being successful and and and actual that that's what separates people you know the great from the good in terms of winning um it's about being able to play your best best snooker in in the sort of most pressurised situations which is sort of I've always been able to do um and I've always been greedy for more success. You know I I would win a tournament on a Sunday night and be back practicing on a Monday morning want to win the next one. So so so greed um which comes naturally as a Scotsman probably um is is is an important aspect as well.

SPEAKER_07 23:37

Yeah interesting so Steven was it always your ambition to beat Davis's record to beat Raydon's record of six world championships well what when I'm at the time professional at 16 um I was the youngest and and and lots of people said um to my father and my management and and even to me that it was a big mistake.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

I should have stayed as an amateur for another two, three years, really sort of learned learned the game and and and and and said that it would be you know I it would it would destroy me turning pro so early. But we we basically took the the the thought that there was nothing else I could learn as an amateur. I wanted to be one of the big boys put in the best best conditions. You know when when I turned pro, no one in Scotland had ever been successful in in snooker. So so there was no history there. There was no reason to to say that I was going to be any different. But I won my first major event when I was 18 uh the Rothman's Grand Prix I beat Steve Davis on the way which was the first time I'd beaten him as well. And sort of from then on I sort of thought you know I'm I'm you know I I want to be the best at this I mean as I did say a quote when I turn quote at 16 I'd be world champion by the time I was 21 um which a lot of people thought was was mental and and and probably I didn't believe it in myself a hundred percent but I did achieve that um you know I was world champion at 21 um and and as soon as I won it the first time obviously the goal then was to win at seven.

SPEAKER_07 24:49

So look when you uh won your first tournament you beat Jimmy Wyatt at 1812 I believe um were you the underdog going into that and did you prefer to be the underdog when you were playing?

SPEAKER_04 25:01

I I don't think I was underdog in that match because uh having I beat John Parrot in the semi-final to become world number one um so so probably I w I probably I was still I was the favourite to win the match. Um but still it was it was still my first world final so there was still that aspect of it. But to be honest after after getting to world number one and and winning I didn't I didn't see any reason any way that I was going to lose that match. I just went into the final so confident so you know I I just I just didn't even entertain the the the slightest possibility of losing.

SPEAKER_07 25:33

But that's all at the age of 21 so where do you think the confidence came from? Was it beating Davis obviously Davis had this perhaps he's coming to an end of an era himself but he had this aura as uh Barry Hearn would say.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Yeah I mean it's it's it it's it's it's strange that I had the this sort of winning mentality Stuart because I haven't had it in any of anything else I've ever done in my life. You know I I played sports school but but but to to no no great level um I wasn't very you know I wasn't a scholar I wasn't very academic so there's nothing that this really this this sort of killer instinct this this will to win that you know manifested itself un until I played Snooker. So yeah I mean as as I said before when I I played Steve Davis maybe 15-16 times and lost every time so when I was 18 and beat him on the way to that first major thing that was a big stepping stone for me because he was although Jimmy White was sort when I first sort of started playing Snooker at 13 14 I loved watching Jimmy. But when I turned pro I wanted to be serious there was only one man to sort of model yourself on and and and and and get close to and that was Steve Davis because he was the only one that was winning winning everything.

SPEAKER_07 26:35

Yeah. So so how much also I mean it it's kind of interesting you say that you liked watching Jimmy because his style was perhaps the polar opposite of yours. I mean he you had a very solid game um a very cutthroat roofless game and and Jimmy was quite flamboyant maybe played to the galleries a few too many times. Also I guess his lifestyle was some way interfering with his game because it was very erratic off the table.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Um I think I think my our our games were pretty similar. Obviously the Jimmy would look we'd play the sort of sort of big the big screw shots at the end if he'd if he'd already won the frame but in terms of like attacking and and and quick snooker we're pretty similar. But I just think I had I had um I had the the the the better you know the the stronger mentality and it's as simple as that. I mean you know Jim Jimmy's been in six world finals and failed to win any of them. So that shows you there's something missing there. And obviously you you you mentioned about his lifestyle and Jimmy's been very open about the fact he he he was he was you know he l he liked the party the gambling and everything that went with it. But I I tend to think that if Jimmy didn't do those things then then he wouldn't maybe be even as successful as he was because if he took that away from Jimmy it wouldn't be him. You know I think if you put him in a club six hours a day seven days a week I think you would it would it would kill his enthusiasm for the game um at that time. So perhaps he wouldn't have even done as well as he as as he did. But um but yeah so it's a it was it was a similar sort of game that we we played but obviously I think I I I was a lot stronger and able to play better on the on the bigger occasions.

SPEAKER_07 28:06

Yeah I mean uh I mean you how many times did you play him in the final? I think it was five times. Was I mean he wasn't really your nemesis I guess because you had the rub on him in the World Championships even though he uh beat you in other events as well you know it wasn't just a completely one-sided affair.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Um but at the time did you really have someone that you hated playing or someone that you loved playing um not not really not really I mean I I d I there's a sort of l l later on um you know there was I mean one of the matches it's still still you know wake up in the middle of the night and I shiver was losing to Peter Ebden in the final once um basically was with with the the type of game he played um you know he he was a quite slow he was quite a slow deliberate player and he would play shots that you didn't expect uh to see played by by by a professional to be to be frank he played a completely different game which obviously you know got him to be world champion which which no one no one can take anything away from that but I played him in the final and and and really didn't expect him to beat me over for over four sessions but uh and due to my sort of bad attitude in that match you know expecting to win rather than going out and and and being ruthless um it cost me that world title.

SPEAKER_07 29:19

Right. I mean I kind of miss the old Peter Ebden the one that would shout and throw his fists around the table after winning a game. Well I wanted to bring up on something similar that I spoke to with George Foreman and when he got beat by Ali he he got beat heavily and then came back in in a sense and you know had numerous comebacks but his life was pretty much that was the crossroads in his life. And I remember hearing in an interview with you ages ago about how you won that title and you said it was all down to Marcus Campbell beating you nine nil in a UK championship. Yeah you said you owed it everything to him.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

I think I think that was um that was a massive I mean that was a up to winning my Seven World title it was a massively poor season I was having. I mean not only did I lose nine nil to Marcus Campbell um which which was which was bad enough. I lost twice to Tony Drago a player who I'd never lost in my whole career. So so yeah it was a it was a poor season. I um I I sort of I I went back to um I had a I had an old coach called Frank Callan who's sadly departed us now but um he he was he was involved with me for a long time in my career but I I'd sort of stopped stopped being with Frank um and he decided to come back on board and and he didn't really do anything massively but I just think the fact I needed someone there to sort of sort of reassure you and say look this isn't you know there is nothing wrong with your game. We just you know a couple of tweaks and this this has worked really hard and and I did I mean I just I you know what you know worked my bollocks off excuse the French before that before that world championship and and and managed to get my game into um I I a decent shape um and you know it was a it was a it was a it was a tough draw I had. I played the sort of I played the the the late Paul Hunter in the first round which was a really tough draw to get um went got got through that and and and as I say we ended up beating Mark Williams um in in the final.

SPEAKER_07 31:09

Yeah. And uh I guess was that some kind of vengeance for the Masters title the uh the the the very famous 10-9 yeah it was it it was yeah I mean it's I I I I wasn't really thinking about that.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

But um again yeah I mean I mean usually when I got to the finals of the World Championship I didn't I didn't really think I was going to lose. It was I was just so comfortable in that one table situation um at the crucible it was my favourite place to play. So yeah even though it was Mark um I was I was very confident of of winning that match.

SPEAKER_07 31:42

I within the system I know Barry Hearn has set up this uh kind of uh ranking system there that you can have like the the older dudes come back uh for some exclusive pass. I think uh Steve Davis exercised it and it will be open to a few other legends of the tour. Uh is there any chance that you'll be coming back and using that license?

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Um well I mean I mean it's a the the we we we were given Steve Davis me and I think James Wattener who was a a famous player from Thailand around about the 90s were given these wild cards uh and and as long as there was space in each tournament and if the in the full quota of entries wasn't taken up we'd be offered a place. Unfortunately for this the end of last season he took that off us so so we're we're we're we're no longer a um a able to play in all the tournaments. We we we can play in the world championship um but that's it. So it's um it's it's so yeah I mean I I do miss it. I mean I would like to play in the odd event but as I say that's been taken off off us and I'm certainly not going to go to Q school and and try and qualify to be to be a pro again. Um but um so so it's uh yeah it's it's un it's unfortunate. Oh you're kidding 'cause when when when I did have the wild cards for the last couple of years for for various reasons, you know personal and and on on the table it was you know it was really in a good frame of mine to play. So it's unfortunate now that I quite fancy playing an event I'm not allowed to Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:03

So how are you spending most of your time now?

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Uh well I go to China quite a lot. I do still do quite a lot of work over there. Um I'm an ambassador for uh a type of Chinese eight ball pool um one of the main manufacturers of the tables out there um so I go around China basically as an ambassador for that and you know I've been around about 50-60 cities in the last four years for them um just just travelling around but I mean basically I'm just eating drink eating and drinking my way around China. I'm not just I'm not doing anything competitive. I still do obviously my work on the BBC um as as as a pundit and a commentator and I'm I'm doing I'm doing the the the ITV tournaments this year as well. So yeah I'm I'm still involved in the game. As I say I do miss it especially Sunday nights um but uh yeah apart from that just I do the odd exhibition still still get my queue out maybe have a game for a couple hours if if I'm bored but um yeah keep keep pretty keep pretty busy.

SPEAKER_07 33:57

Well Stephen I could probably have you on the phone for a good couple of hours but I know you've you've got more important stuff to do. But um listen thanks for taking the time out. It does sound like you've you've almost been put out to stud as it were but I'd I'd much like to see you back on the TV and if you've got that license to turn up at the world championship that that'll be great to see you on that again.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

I know uh Davis did that this year I think it was for the last time yeah yeah the the only the only problem is you've got to go to a bloody leisure centre and play three qualifying matches which doesn't really inspire me too much. If the qualifying was at the crucible um it would definitely be a serious consideration but um no I when you've played at the crucible and you've played at you know the the Wembley Old Wembley Conference Center in front of 3,000 people playing in a leisure center where people are walking past with their rubber rings to go swimming it doesn't really inspire.

SPEAKER_07 34:44

Stephen Hendry talking to me earlier. Okay so now a quick word from our sponsor let me tell you something you already know the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it you or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning it's done now if you know what you're worth then what you're worth but you gotta be willing to take the hit and not point your fingers say you ain't where you want to be because of him or her or anybody cowards do that and that ain't you you're better than that some meaty words from Sylvester there.

SPEAKER_07 35:38

Okay so we're gonna finish off with an interview with Michael Stoer the London life coach high end London life coach speaker and author a man with a black belt and winning mentality this is Michael Stowe. Enjoy this one on the podcast now we have Michael Stoer the high-end London life coach speaker and author.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

How are you doing Michael I'm excellent how are you Pete?

SPEAKER_07 36:01

I'm fantastic thanks for taking the time out to speak to me today.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Pleasure what a what a what a way to start a day for me. I say start a day because uh you know I don't belong to any of this 4 a.m or 5 a.m club when people wake up in the middle of the night to do some sh crazy shit like yoga I wake up at 10 and I don't apologize for it. So it's a very very very much start of the day for me at 5 past eleven.

SPEAKER_07 36:23

Well that's that's fascinating because I hear many different approaches from entrepreneurs to start the day right with getting up at the crack of six and doing half hour on the treadmill then taking a cold shower. So it's quite refreshing to know that you can get up at 10. I'm I'm gonna embrace that.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

Yeah I I you know as far as I'm concerned I start the day well as well I wake up at 10 I always say to people don't ask me any questions don't ask me for any favors before 11am because the automatic answer is no because I'm not a morning person. So I need one hour to pick myself up you know sure so I can be just like answering emails or like looking at the Facebook and etc but like I I don't try I try to avoid any conversations with human beings before 11 because I need an hour to to get ready and then always say there's no there is no one way of becoming successful. This whole fucking like I gotta wake up early and this and that like you know you yes you're gonna wake up at five but if you wake up at five what am I gonna go to sleep? So why are you gonna be going to sleep? Are we still working to two till 2 a.m at the end of the day it doesn't matter when you work as long as you work and you work enough right yeah so that's kind of how I look at it. So but yeah it obviously the the the general trend is to wake up very early and you know getting shit done before everybody else wakes up but like I I'm I'm just not I didn't sign up for this plan and have no intention of whatever.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Well I'm glad I've caught you just after 11 so I feel like I've got to there's there's no coincidence Peter we didn't schedule that for 10 for half past ten. Yeah it's just no coincidence.

SPEAKER_07 37:55

Well now that you've climatized to the day um if you could just let us know a little bit about yourself please Michael uh brag a little bit if you will um they say it's not bragging if you can back it up um so I'm uh I'm uh I'm an immigrant from from Poland I came here 11 years ago at the age of 22 on the bus um because I couldn't afford the plane ticket.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

It took me 27 hours to get here I don't recommend it. I spent uh the first two weeks on the squat in South East London in a shithole of Southeast London. I know there are good areas in southeast London but the one I was in it wasn't one of them because I literally had no money. The only reason I could come here in the first place with my girlfriend at the time is because I had a couple of friends really living here and they were kind enough to lend us some money to begin with. So I came here broke but also came here with a massive attitude of uh absolute and total domination that will take place um as long as I uh as soon as I discover the vehicle I would like to use to express myself yeah I I see coaching or any other form of um expression any any any other form of any other form of work as a as a form of expression which is like a form of art. So I didn't discover coaching for the first four years after coming here. Sorry four years five years after coming here I I spent the first five years in fashion retail I had a very successful career there but it was an example of of winning in the wrong game. And often say to people to my clients that hey listen the fact that you're good at something the fact that you're doing a good job in the bank you work in it doesn't fucking mean that they're supposed to spend the rest of their life there. Because if you are smart and I would imagine everyone listening to this podcast uh it's it's intelligent. If you are intelligent you will be good at more than one thing. So the fact that you are good at your job and they praise you and then give you you know every time every time you're thinking about leaving they give you a bit of a pay rise they change your title so you can you know change things on your business card that doesn't mean that you're supposed to be doing it you know so yes I was good in fashion retail just like I could be good at at a few other things I'm sure but it wasn't it my heart wasn't in it. So when I discovered coaching at 27 I was like fuck this is it like in every cell of my body I felt that this is the right thing for me to do.

SPEAKER_07 40:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

And that's the vehicle I was I had in mind coming here like my whole life like my whole adult life I had a I had this very strong knowing that I'm destined for greatness I just need to find a vehicle to express myself a vehicle that's gonna take me to that greatness right and you know at 27 I found Dana this vehicle is coaching and it's been what six years since the discovery and that knowing hasn't left me for for a single day for a minute right and I started with nothing I I was actually 5,000 pounds in debt on credit cards when I started my coaching business and when I first started I was charging 20 pounds per session that's as much I had that's that's that's as much as I could charge having the level of confidence and experience lack of it rather that I had at the time and I really paced myself as my confidence was growing as a coach I was putting my fees up sort of 50 pounds per session and 75 pounds per session 100 pounds per session then I started to charge up front for programs and and now five years after launching my website I'm one of the highest paid life coaches not only in the UK but also on the planet easily top 1% with uh you know with my quarter of a million turnover which is you know anyone listening to that if you are like in a in if you're in a business or if you are any other kind of normal so to speak industry quarter of a million turnover might not sound like a lot but I can tell you that you know in life coaching it's it's unheard of it's it's it's extremely extremely high. You know bear in mind I don't have any costs I have very little costs. I don't have an office I don't have staff I have you know part-time assistant virtual assistant and that's that's about it so it's a it's a tremendous amount of money for doing something I absolutely fucking love with the people I absolutely fucking love. You know sometimes I'm like it's only pinch me because I get to spend time with amazing amazing people high achievers winners uh people with great attitude I get to spend time with them because that's what coaching is and having conversations with them because that's what coaching is and I get paid for it not just paid for it but I get paid for it uh enough to to to be able to afford having the kind of lifestyle that I have which is which is a which is a very nice comfortable lifestyle not just for me but for my girlfriend as well who I'm supporting and for my parents back in Poland who I'm supporting and and life is good you know and it's all through the they say you know what they say is the the labor of love you know I will be I maybe wouldn't go as far as like you know I'm doing it because it's a labor of love because I actually you know I I find it quite selfish because I actually enjoy helping people like I get something out of it you know so I feel like yes my job is to help people but like I I feel like I'm doing it for myself first of all because it just that that's the best I get from it. So I'm actually very fucking selfish.

SPEAKER_07 43:13

Well greed is good according to Gordon Gecko. That's um one of the things I took from Fall Street. Michael just quick in regards to like having say a a winning mentality and if you're looking to make people more of a success uh don't let me put words in your mouth but I guess it might be your job when people come to you for you to dismantle them and then put them back together again without the glitches and insecurities. Would that be a fair assessment?

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Yes so I I work with people today like when I first started I would work with any fucker you know willing to spend twenty quid uh but today I work with people who already have a winning attitude or at the very least they have some foundation of this winning attitude already. Because you know I I I I believe that you can't turn a loser into a winner. If you if you are a loser if If you are the victim, the blamer, the oh, the immigrants are coming stealing our jobs, you know. Like, I don't want to work with you. Like, you are hopeless. So, like, you need to sort your shit out before you come into me because I don't have patience for this. Like, if you come to me and you blame other people or other things for the fact that you are whatever, whatever you are, and you're not happy with it, then I'm not interested in working with you. I'm a performance coach. I work with winners, I work with people who have a winning attitude, and of course, there are different levels of that winning attitude. So the winning attitude I had coming here at 22 is different to the winning to the level of uh this this this mindset that I have today because I've been working on it for the last 10 years for personal development, like for myself. So there are different layers, but definitely uh, you know, if if uh you know if if someone has a loser mentality, if someone spends their whole life feeling sorry for themselves, that that's the biggest limitation that might have in terms of uh succeeding in life. So that's the same thing. Sorry, no, no, sorry, Kevin, please. On the other side, if you have this winning attitude already, whether with the help of coaching, which is basically you know, which is basically accelerating this process of growth, or by yourself, there's not absolutely nothing you cannot do. That's that's my personal belief. Because, you know, I don't need to look far for an example of that, because you know, I look at myself, came with nothing, uh very basic English, no support of the family, not mental support, but not financial, no, no support of any kind from anyone other than mental. And you know, if I could achieve what I achieved in my professional life, if I could achieve what I achieved in my personal life, which is a separate story, maybe for a different interview, you know, I believe that I genuinely believe that everybody can if you have the right attitude. So that's them, that's the winning attitude you're talking about, you the winning mindset. Like you have to have that, you have to have a belief, you have to have a desire. You know, you you you have to have a desire to have something before you can even think about having it.

SPEAKER_07 46:05

And what is it that most I mean, obviously each of your clients would be different, uh, but what is perhaps your overriding arc that they come to you with? Is it a lack of work ethic? Is it being dispassionate about their job or not having their calling? Is it is it all of that?

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, all of the above plus like 20 other things. This is the question I get asked a lot. Like, Michael, what what you know, you are a life coach, you help people with all sorts of things, but what's the one thing that people come to you with the most? And the answer is the honest answer is it I I don't know, because it's really it's it's really just one thing. It is sometimes like career change, or you know, I want to meet someone or I want to date more, you know. More often than not, it's a combination of things. And when I meet someone for the first time and I have this free initial consultation with people interested in in coaching, we go through the simple exercise with that 22 different areas, and I go one by one and ask people to score themselves on each of them on escape from zero to ten. Zero being, I'm extremely dissatisfied in this area. Uh, 10 being I'm extremely satisfied. So among these 22 areas, we have anything from love life, career, finances, confidence, self-love, motivation level, work-life balance, fitness, health, you name it, spirituality, anything you can think of, stress level, anything you can think of will fall into one of these 22 categories. And you see, the the last one, the 22nd one, is general happiness. And what happens almost every single time, and I do this exercise around 200 times a year, the general happiness score at the bottom is the exact average of all the other scores. So I believe that ultimately people come to me because they want to be more happy. But it doesn't mean that they necessarily say that when they come to see me or when they send me an email. Yeah, especially if you are a successful CEO, age 50. You're not gonna send me an email and say, Hi Michael, I hope you can help me, I want to be more happy. No, he's gonna say I feel stuck, he's gonna use different language. He's gonna say, My relationship with my wife is not great because I've been working for the last 30 years, and but at the end of the day, it's about the happiness. So you know, I don't call myself happiness coach because that sounds fucking cheesy, but I am, but ultimately what I'm helping people.

SPEAKER_07 48:17

Sounds like a sounds like a horrible Samuel L.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Jackson film that the uh ultimately it's it's about helping people become feeling feeling happier, more fulfilled, more content with the lives. And the way we do it, we identify the areas with low scores, right? And then we create throughout the coaching process, it's very simple. We create action plans around those areas. We ask ourselves, okay, what can we do with a four out of ten on a love life? Okay, let's talk about what we can do with three out of ten on a work-life balance, let's talk about it. And then throughout the coaching process, um the inevitably these scores go up because we're working on it, and when they go up, they form a new higher average. And that's it. That's the whole, you know, it's coaching is light. Coaching is simple. Um, you know, especially if you do it with someone like me who's just like I I'm a very black and white person. I'm very like what you see is what you get, and and I like clarity and I like clear structures. I'm a little bit I have a little bit of German blood in me, maybe that's why. I'm a very structured person. Uh and you know, I I it it's efficient and it's simple, it's a very simple process. You know, there's nothing every fairy about it, unless you get a coach who will try to you know ask you to close your eyes because you know, there's different different kinds of coaching. But in a nutshell, me, what me and my associates and all most of the coaches that I know, what we do is very simple is having these conversations around the areas that people need to improve or want to improve, and those conversations and the action plans created at the end of those conversations that people work on between sessions lead to increasing general happiness or general satisfaction in life. That's it.

SPEAKER_07 50:01

Michael, I I'm just curious, you're looking after all these people when these clients come in to you and you're kind of fixing their problems and and guiding them. Who's looking after you? Oh, you mean apart from my girlfriend? Yeah, just like just your mental direction, how do you see yourself improving, you know, evolving, etc.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

No, it's a very good question, Pete. I I uh I I believe in a product that I sell. The product I sell it's called coaching, and I wouldn't even think to go through life without having a coach. So I had I had many coaches, I mean not many, don't exaggerate. I had I had one coach, life coach for two years. Now I've had the business coach that I have, uh Daniel Priestley, who's a very successful entrepreneur and the author of three best-selling books, little plug in here, uh, for since the summer last year, and he's been brilliant. So very much business coaching. And occasionally I would see some other coaches for like one-off sessions, and and also bear in mind I you know I'm surrounded by coaches. I have a team of associates, so sometimes if it's something you know minor, I would run it by my associates basically, you know. So I'm just being as being uh you know, cost effective. I would run it by them, and and you know, they sharp, they sharp, and I trust them. And I'm surrounded by coaches, and I'm surrounded by intelligent and wise people, even my clients. Like I could I I run things by my clients sometimes. Right. They come for a session, I I you know, I we get the job done, and at the end I say, hey listen, can I ask you about your opinion? You know, and whether it's you know, especially if I need something to do with the legal advice or to do with investment or property, having clients in those different industries, right? Uh I I learn all the time and I'm I'm willing to learn from anyone. Like, I'm not like, oh, you are not as successful as I'm not gonna listen to you. I'm gonna listen to my clean my cleaning lady. I will listen to anyone. Yeah, because I believe that there's wisdom in everyone, you know.

SPEAKER_07 52:00

I'm of the same school. Um I wouldn't necessarily agree that everyone's got a fantastic book in them, but I'm sure they've got a good story in them somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

Yeah, they're maybe pushing it, you know. But they've got a good tweet in them, you know, they have a good tweet.

SPEAKER_07 52:13

Yeah, they've got a good at least 140 characters, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Michael, so uh you've got a book. It's From Good to Amazing, No Bullshit Tips from the Life You Always Wanted. Um could you maybe just give us one or two little polls from that and perhaps extend to us some of your reading material as well, something you'd recommend to us to read, other than the book.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Right, right, right. So I I wrote this book in pain back in 2012. I say I say in pain because I don't like writing. But it's one of those things you know I I believe that is gonna be good for me, for for my coaching business, for my brand, and and I and I wrote this book. And it's a basically combination, not combination, collection of of I think there's around 70 um small um chapters, and and just like I was talking about 22 areas that we go through during these initial consultations, I go through 70 different areas of personal development, such as goal setting, such as overcoming procrastination. So all the things I I um I discuss uh with people in my coaching, not all of them, because there's more than 70, I'm sure, but like these are like my top my top thoughts or top insights from the field of personal development. But I say myself in the introduction of this book that hey listen, if you've been reading personal development books for years, you're not gonna find anything new in here.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Yeah, because I I I believe that everything in personal development has been said already in the 20th century, so I can't possibly invent anything. So I wasn't trying to invent anything. I just I just put my own spin on or my own spin on the things that I've learned basically. You know? Okay, and there is it's very personal, it's the style is conversational, it's very direct, and I share some personal stories, and and it's it's it's you know Sony said that reading this book is like listening to me speak. It's very it's very me. There's no doubt I wrote it myself, basically.

SPEAKER_07 54:17

Yeah, you've you've got an un a very distinguishable style. Um I was trying to grope for the right word, but couldn't get it in time. Um but it's available on Amazon, so if anyone wants to check that out, and also your website, Michaelserwa.com. Uh thank you, Michael. Thanks for uh thanks for taking the time out. And um if anyone wants to tap up, Michael, I'm sure you you're very accessible. You you you're very responsive after 11 o'clock. That is that's uh that's the time to hurry.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you, you know, you like you follow me on Facebook. I'm I'm I'm big on Facebook, especially. I post stuff every day and I share interesting stuff. Well, yeah, what I th what I find interesting anyway. Uh YouTube channel, but like you can you can find uh icons to all my social media platforms, all the ones I'm on, on on like you said, michaelserva.com. And if you ever feel like discussing what coaching could do for you, uh give me a shout. We have a coffee and talk about it. Um, you know, like I said, I have associates as well, so whatever it is, whatever angle you need to take on your life with coaching, I will know the perfect person for you, London-based or some internationally based coaches there as well. So it changes life, uh, but only if you do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 55:27

And like you say, you can't really put a price on changing your life or turning your life around, you know.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Sometimes, sometimes people like look at my website and like, oh my god, this is gonna be expensive. And I am expensive, but I in the same time I say, hey, I'm not the only coach who can help you. And you know, I'm I'm a major advocate for coaching in general, not just coaching with me. Like, I strongly believe that everybody should have a coach. And and if if you try it, if you try it with the right person, and by right person I mean someone you have the right chemistry with, you will understand what I mean. You'll be like, why I haven't done it before? It's one of those things, you know. So I highly, highly recommend for all of you guys listening to us today to Google coaching and see if you can find someone uh you resonate with, and just go and talk to them, you know, have these initial consultations, which are usually free, and just talk to them and see what they can do for you. You don't need to, you know, uh you don't need to commit to anything uh initially.

SPEAKER_07 56:24

Michael Sower there. So that's Michael S-E-R-W A.com if you want to find him and check him out. Okay, so that's the end of the podcast. I'd like to thank my guests, George Foreman, Stephen Hendry, Michael Surer, uh of course Charlie Sheen.

SPEAKER_04 56:39

You know, good luck, you're gonna need it, I'll be over here like winning.

SPEAKER_07 56:42

I'll be back in a couple of weeks, but like I said at the start of the show, if you want to check out all the blogs and the competitions and the interviews, then do head over to menswearstyle.co.uk. There you'll find all the other previous podcasts. If you want to subscribe to us in iTunes, that'd be great. If you want to leave us a five-star review, that'd be even better. It will keep me in a job and it will keep me winning.