Menswear Style Podcast
The Menswear Style Podcast is a leading men’s fashion and menswear podcast exploring men’s style, clothing, grooming, lifestyle and the business behind some of the world’s most exciting fashion brands. Hosted by Peter Brooker, each episode features conversations with menswear designers, fashion entrepreneurs, innovative brand founders and industry experts from across the global fashion and apparel industry. Discover the stories behind established and emerging clothing brands, from the first idea and challenges of launching a fashion start-up to building a successful international business. Guests share their experiences and insights across fashion design, sustainability, manufacturing, marketing, branding, eCommerce, retail, social media and business growth. Whether you’re interested in men’s fashion and style, discovering new menswear brands, starting your own clothing label, or learning how successful fashion businesses are built, the Menswear Style Podcast takes you behind the scenes of the modern menswear industry. New conversations with the people shaping the future of menswear, men’s style and fashion.
Menswear Style Podcast
Giles English of Bremont, Mike France of Chris Ward, John Argento of Shinola & Elizabeth Doerr of Quill and Pad
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A mammoth episode dedicated to the watchmen this week. We speak to some of the biggest names on the horology circuit to get their take on the current state of the watch industry, and how important it is to have the Swiss-made stamp? We speak to Co-Founder of Bremont, Giles English, Co-Founder of Chris Ward, Mike France, Head of Marketing in Europe for Shinola, John Argento, and the Editor of Quill and Pad, Elizabeth Doerr.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode, we're going to be talking watches. We know they have to be Swish, but do they have to be Swiss? I'll be speaking to one of the co-founders of the British watch manufacturing company Bramont, Giles English, as he gives me a little insight into the history of the name. His name was Bramont, or his surname was Bramont, forgive me, I forgot his first name. How is your relationship with him now? Is he still about? Is he still going?
SPEAKER_04No, he he died a few years after. Oh, bonus.
SPEAKER_07Yes. Always do your research. I'll find it helps. We're also going to be talking to Oh Hello?
SPEAKER_03Hello, little man.
SPEAKER_07Oh, hey, Christopher Walken. How are you doing? Look, uh, I'm I'm kind of in the middle of something right now. Any chance we can do this another?
SPEAKER_03Boy, I sure heard a bunch about you.
SPEAKER_07And yeah, that's very sweet. The podcast is doing well. Speaking of the podcast, I was actually in the middle of doing one, so Chris, if we could do this.
SPEAKER_03See, I was a good friend of your dad's.
SPEAKER_07Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03We were in that Hanuei pit of hell together over five years.
SPEAKER_07Five years, wow, okay.
SPEAKER_03Hopefully.
SPEAKER_07Yes.
SPEAKER_03You'll never have to experience this yourself, but when two men are in a situation like me and your dad were for as long as we were.
SPEAKER_07Oh God, Chris, really, I don't need to know. Please, please.
SPEAKER_03You take on certain responsibilities of the other.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_03If it had been me, who'd Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_07Look, please, Chris, I'm I'm gonna get back to you.
SPEAKER_03Major cool is you'd be talking right now to my son.
SPEAKER_07Sure.
SPEAKER_03Jim.
SPEAKER_07Gotcha. Right. Okay, we'll crack on. We'll come back to Christopher Walken, I swear. We've got a jam-packed episode this week. We're also going to be talking to Mike France, one of the co-founders of Christ Ford. He tells me who he thinks will be a great ambassador for his company.
SPEAKER_06I just love the kind of um A, he's uh he's a pretty successful chap, but B, uh he has a sort of um uh he doesn't take himself that seriously, although he does a really serious job. He just seems like a decent a decent guy.
SPEAKER_07Hmm, yes. Any ideas on who he's referring to? So from Christopher Ward to Christopher Walkin, let's just check in and see where he's up to.
SPEAKER_03This watch. I got here. It was first purchased by your great grandfather during the First World War.
SPEAKER_07Wow, that is a thing of beauty.
SPEAKER_03It was bought from a little general store in Knoxville, Tennessee. Made by the first company to make wristwatches.
SPEAKER_07Okay, honestly, that is fascinating stuff, Christopher Walken. Please hold that for and we'll uh we'll we'll come back to it elsewhere. But also we'll uh Up till then people just can't park the watches. Okay, I got it.
SPEAKER_03Bought by private door boy Irian Coolidge on the day he sets out for Paris. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_07Moving on, we're also gonna be talking to John Argento, the head of Europe for Chinola Watches, a Detroit-based company. We're gonna be talking All Things Detroit, All Things Watches, and All Things Robocop.
SPEAKER_09Well, I tell you this, I've been to Detroit quite a few times, and uh my last trip was just a couple of months ago, and I have not yet spotted a Robocop uh statue. I'm pretty sure that's something I would have seen if it was um if it was up somewhere.
SPEAKER_07Fascinating stuff there. Stay tuned for that interview coming up shortly. Let me just check in on Christopher, see if he's still rambling on.
SPEAKER_03The way your dad looked at it, this watch was your birthright. He'd be damned if any slope's gonna put the greasy yellow hands on his boy's birthright, so he hid it.
SPEAKER_07He hid it? Where?
SPEAKER_03In one place he knew he could hide something, his ass. Five long years he wore this watch.
SPEAKER_07No.
SPEAKER_03Up his ass.
SPEAKER_07Then Okay, yeah, I got it. Thanks. Thanks, Christopher. Really, it's a lovely watch. I don't I don't think I need another watch, especially the one that's been up my dad's ass. We're also gonna be speaking to Elizabeth Dewer, one of the co-founders of Quill and Pad. She's gonna be He died of dysentery. Give me the watch. Got it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I hid this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass. Two years. It's up your ass as well. After seven years, I'll send all of my family.
SPEAKER_07Okay. Right.
SPEAKER_03Now.
SPEAKER_07Yep. Little man. Yeah. I give the watch to you. That's great. Thanks, Jesus. Wow, what a what a gift, Christopher. A watch that's been up your ass and my dad's ass. I will I will treasure it. Moving on, we will now crack on with the podcast. We will speak to Giles English, one half of Bramont Watches. Okay, so uh on the podcast now we have Giles English, who is the co-founder of Bramont Watches. How are you doing, Giles?
SPEAKER_05I'm very well. Lovely to speak to you.
SPEAKER_07And to you too. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to speak to me today. Um Firstly, I I chanced upon the website and looked at the video, the promotion video, uh, and thought it was very interesting. Um before we get into Bramont, do you mind just giving us a little bit of history about yourself? Brag a little bit uh and then we'll get into the brand itself.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, brag a little bit. Um yep, the really Brem was started by myself and my brother Nick, and it all really came from growing up with this amazing dad, an uh PhD aeronautical engineer from Cambridge, who loved his watches and clocks. So it really grew up around that, and um he very sadly died in a plane crash in '95 with my brother, and my brother survived, and that was for us the tipping point to go and do something we loved. And we were always really aware that you know Britain had this amazing history of watchmaking, but there were very few British watch companies still making watches.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so um how did you so you've got an aviation background alongside your brother yourself? How did you make that switch from aviation over to watches?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's well, I trained as an engineer. Um actually, I was always gonna be a naval architect designing boats, um, but we grew up around aviation. My father had a business restoring old aircraft, and it's quite interesting, you know, my view, as if you're yeah, a watch is it's about gears and great case design and and general design. And and whether it's that, an engine or uh or an aircraft, it's it's really about assembling of those components so that so they work together. And um, so you once we obviously learned the details of watchmaking, I had a very good idea sort of growing up and restoring clocks, and we went over to Switzerland for five years and and really learnt the trade and brought our experience into it. So it yeah, it's not an easy transition, but it you know, for an engineer it's it's logical.
SPEAKER_07And did you have to convince your brother or did he have to convince you, or was it a meeting of the minds? How did it work?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was a sort of um we both had this love for it, and and it it was a very, very high risk strategy for us to take on at the time. And uh, you know, you you tell your wives it's gonna be, you know, yeah, oh yeah, I'm gonna be for three years and we'll start selling watches. You know, we didn't sell a single watch for five years, so it was quite a hard one to tell your wife. But um uh so it wasn't a natural business idea, but I think you know, post what we'd been through with our dad and um and Nick getting out of hospital, it was well, sod that we you know could be dead tomorrow. Let's let's go and live life.
SPEAKER_07Absolutely, and what better partner in Switzerland? So, whereabouts in Switzerland were you based?
SPEAKER_05So Bien was where we were sort of um uh based, and we start build started building our original uh watches around there. Um but the whole idea was to bring them back to the UK and you know a various stage process to be able to do that. And that that on stage one was training out watchmakers and watch assemblers, um post that it was um you know all the stock systems and everything else you need uh you know around that, and then three was actually machining bits of metal in the UK as well. Um and and it's it's been a long and uh high investment process, but it's it's really exciting, it seems to be working.
SPEAKER_07Excellent. Well, um Giles, do you mind just holding my hand through this process? So you've got the parts coming from Switzerland, all the design and all of the uh I'd say the inspiration was more for the English uh side, and the manufacturing and the casing and the glass is uh English manufactured, unless I'm wrong on that. Um so where do the two meet? Where do you actually say, look, this is a British watch as opposed to imported Swiss parts?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, uh I look at our our cost base, and we have 90 odd people, and they're all based in the UK, um, manufacturing part of that process. Um, obviously, yeah, we're making cases and that sort of stuff in in our own workshops, um, and some key movement components. We're doing all the design over here, um, both CAD and um you know visual. Um so our cost base is here, but we're still reliant on Swiss components, will be for many years. And until that skill set is in the UK, and uh then you can't do it. And and historically, you know, watch companies have not built every component of a watch. Um it's very similar to the car industry. You do um you know specialisms like dial printing and that sort of stuff, you you very rarely do you try and do in-house because it's such a specialist area, even place things like plating, um certain bits of engraving uh watch companies historically not done themselves. So it's it's really where that line starts and finishes. But yeah, all of our cost bases in the UK, and you know, that's a large part proportion of anything goes into a watch.
SPEAKER_07Excellent. Um I I just loved it. I mentioned the video earlier. One of the loveliest parts of that video that I learned from it was how you and your brother were flying over a part of France and landed in a field, had to crash land, ditch the airplane, uh, and one of the local farmers came out and and helped you out. And his name was Bramont, or his surname was Bramont, forgive me, I forgot his first name. Uh, how is your relationship with him now? Is he still about? Is he still going?
SPEAKER_04No, he he died a few years after.
SPEAKER_05Oh, bullet. Uh yeah, so sadly, but but we told him what we're doing, and he's thought you crazy Englishman, and uh you know he he was never uh never a great friend. I mean, we never knew him that well, but when we met him and he helped us out, I mean it when you force landed in France, it it's very different to England. England you just give the farmer a bottle of whiskey and say sorry. In France, it's it's illegal, they impound your aircraft, they make you ship it to an airfield. So so we were rightly shitting ourselves, and uh and this old boy helped us out, and and he he you know just reminds us of our father, how'd he have lived till the eight his eighties, and he lovely old boy restoring these old tractors, and and we just had a real bond with him. And and at that time, all our early watches we were making without a name on. So you know, my surname's English, we can never put English on a dollar watch. And what we Nick and I were very conscious we didn't want to do, and we could have easily done it, was go and buy an old brand. So whether it was a Harrison or a Mudge or a Tompignon or yeah, one of the great British watchmakers. But we felt by doing that we would constantly be living a bit of a light, really, and pretending we were some great marine chronometer producer. Um, and we wanted to make our own way, and and hence why we wanted our own name, and we just like the sound of Brahma as a surname. We thought, yeah, Bremer, why not? And uh and that's really where it came from.
SPEAKER_07So there's uh there's a lovely romance to that. So uh I'm I'm glad that that was included in the video because that was something nice to take away from it. Um just a little bit about your collaborations, please, Charles. So uh how exciting was it when Jaguar approached you to get one of the watches instilled on the dashboard? And the CX75, unless I'm mistaken, was the one that was in the Bond film, yeah?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, there was, and uh that was it was a great project, and they approached us and said, Look, we love what you're doing, and and we're making want to make various custom um uh cars, and we want to do something interesting with our clocks. Would you make them for us? And it started with a 675, and then um we did uh an XJ Jaguar, and then it led to um all the Queen's cars, all her stretch jaguars we built Bremont clocks for on the back. So it's a really lovely ongoing relationship, and and Ian Callum is just he's uh you know such a nice guy, the chief designer of Jaguar, and we've got on very well with him.
SPEAKER_07I've met him a few times, he's yeah, he's such a nice chap.
SPEAKER_05And then then when they were doing these six lightweight E-types, they were recommissioning. Um they said, look, we'd like love to do a watch for each of the owners. And I'd always loved those classic um carved dials, or made by Smiths, obviously the last British watch company, and and it was just such a clear inspiration, something for us to to effectively inspire ourselves against. And um, we made the watches and we decided to go into production with them. So it's it's it's been a lovely ongoing relationship.
SPEAKER_07And at the time when they made the CX75 though, they had no designs to put that in the Bond film, is that right? This was something that the Bond franchise came to them later in the day and said, We've seen this car, we we like it, can we have it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they were they were um they were they were doing it and they were seriously interested about going into full production with it, and I think for various reasons they they didn't, and then it'd been sitting around and the Bond guy said, Look, we've got to do something with that car, and it is such a lovely car. Um, and it's um you know a shame they haven't gone to full production with it. Um but yeah, no, it's it's a lovely thing to be part of. Excellent.
SPEAKER_07Um also just another collaboration I I saw in the video was uh your one with Johnny Wood. So you got him involved to design one of your clocks. What's he like to work with? Um Ronnie Wood is Oh, sorry, Ronnie Wood Pollocks. Yeah, don't you know what? I've got one of my IT guys whose name is Johnny Wood. Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_05The Johnny Wood rolling stage guitarist. Um Ronnie, we yeah, he approached us and said, Look, we've just done a clock and uh um would be interested in doing something with his art on it. And and we did, and and he painted it, and we we had a lovely relationship with him and travelled around with him a bit, and uh just very articulate, bright, talented man, and uh um you know massive respect. And and I think you know our remit in life, full stop, is life is short. You if you're gonna work with anyone, you've got to make sure you like them and you enjoy their company, and uh and and someone like Ronnie is just uh he's such a class individual, and and it created this sort of quite unique clock, so it's a lovely thing to work with.
SPEAKER_07How many of the clocks were made?
SPEAKER_05Uh we only we've only ever done one um Ronnie clock. Um the clocks though, we've done variations of it, and we've made um probably about a dozen of them.
SPEAKER_07Wow, okay, great. Um just lastly, um Giles, before I let you go, the uh you said you didn't sell a watch for five years. At what point did you think Frikey we might be in trouble here? We could we we might have to chuck the towel in and call it a day on this one?
SPEAKER_05You're very close a number of times, and and I think there's it is lots of areas when you've um when you've sunk so much into it, you pulling out is just more scary than sort of staying in there. Um so realistically, it it was never gonna be an option. We had to deliver it. And and I you know the I keep saying this rule that we've learnt in life is just everything we do costs three times more, takes three times longer, and it's three times the amount of effort. So it's the three times rule. And I think if you sort of work with that, um you just know it's gonna be hard, and and you know nothing comes easy, and you can um uh you you think oh it's luck and they've got there, whatever, but it's just hard, hard work, and uh and and and uh yeah, you don't give up.
SPEAKER_07And what was the turning point? I mean imagine I watched Dragon's Den last night, I watched it quite a bit, and imagine if you brought that watch in after five years of not selling one, uh and you tell the dragons, look, hey, we've got so much debt, uh we've got so much arrears, all we have is stock, they would have just shooed you out of there pretty damn quick. So uh was it a uh huge turning point, like a a big sale or a a big brand ambassador that came on board?
SPEAKER_05Um I think for us it was when we got our sort of final prototypes made, and um and they were they're really, really nice, and we love the three-piece case, and we had this hardened steel and chronometry rated and then you know quality of the hands, all of those elements. We showed it to a few journalists, and we knew they were going to be sort of slightly sniffy, they'd never heard of us before, and and putting that all aside, they sort of you know basically said, Look, we've never heard of you before, but actually, for the price point, this is a bloody good watch. And suddenly it dawned on us we'd create a lovely product, and we knew if we could get out there and tell the story, and you know, the the market, it's a big market, the watch market, but it's dominated by the big boys. But I think you as we saw the whole market maturing, and it was very different in you know '95 and beyond that, you know, 2000 to what it is now. And we saw that they you know these niche players like us offered something different and unique and special, and uh we felt there's that market. And we live in a society today where you buy something and it's it's it's it's rubbish, it's for the bin in 12 months' time, and very few things you can buy that last forever. And watches are one of those few things that you can do, and I think it always has its place.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Well, uh just interestingly, Charles, where is your demographic? I mean, obviously it's stuff that's going on in Switzerland, but it's also a very British brand. Are you is it bigger in England per se than it is across Europe?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, England's our our biggest market, and then it's probably US um and then sort of Asia, Middle East. Um and about 20% of our business is just making for the military around the world, so that's always been a big part of our business. Um so it's it's quite nice and diverse um as a company. But you're your your challenge to watch companies, you're an engineering business that um is having to make things um you know very complicated things in an industry in a country where they haven't made them forever, and then you'll also have to be a very good marketeer and retailer and all those things. So it's it's inherently a very complex business to be part of.
SPEAKER_07Fantastic. Well, uh Charles, I'm gonna let you go, but thanks for um jumping on the podcast. Really appreciate it. And uh I'll uh look out for some more Bramont watches in the magazines. Oh, interestingly, do you wear anything else apart from Bramont or do you like anything else? Your contemporaries?
SPEAKER_05Oh, I I I've always loved vintage watches, and um but no, I I can't be seen out with anyone else's watches. It's definitely not good for PR, so I'll stick to my own.
SPEAKER_07Charles English from Bramont. Okay, so well, just out of curiosity, Christopher, where do you get your watches from? You scumbag.
SPEAKER_02Didn't you learn nothing from me?
SPEAKER_07Well, I learned that you hid my dad's watch up your ass, but boy, has your mood changed over the last ten minutes. Christ! Go to Switzerland. Okay, now you're just state in the obvious. We'll leave it there. Take out my dick. Oh, god Jesus' age, Christopher, this is a family show. Look, I can't be doing this again. No, I'm not taking that out. Take it out! No! I'm just look, we'll move on. We're gonna speak to Mike France, co-founder of Christopher Ward. Okay, so on the podcast now we have Mike France. Mike France is one of the co-founders of Christopher Ward. How are you doing, Mike? I'm good, thank you, Peter. Excellent, thanks for taking the time out. So, Mike, first question um for you is the question you probably get asked ten times in a day is why isn't the brand called Mike France?
SPEAKER_06Well, I I am one of three co-founders, and the other two, uh one is Peter Ellis uh and the other is Christopher Ward. And uh when we were um uh looking into which um which name we would have on our watches, um we were particularly interested in uh English aesthetics uh and wanted an English sounding name. We didn't want a made-up name, we wanted it to be authentic and real. Frankly, for an English brand to have Mike France on the label, on the on the dial isn't ideal. Peter Ellis, and he'll not thank me for saying this, we thought it was a bit mundane, but there's a lovely lilting Englishness about Christopher Ward. It scans beautifully and is a very English-sounding name. So nothing more than that, really. It's uh it sounded uh the best of them. We looked at different uh combinations, uh, it was going to be called MPC, our Christian names, but that looked a little bit too familiar. Um so that's what that's what happened. It's authentic, it's real, uh, and it's the most English sounding name, and we're very at one level we're a very English brand. Excellent.
SPEAKER_07Well, uh it sounded like it was a unanimous decision, so no quarreling within the range.
SPEAKER_06It was for Chris. He had yeah, I bet he was he was well up for that. He was well up for that. I didn't see him resisting too strongly.
SPEAKER_07So, Mike, um uh just tell us a little bit about yourself, please, and how you three guys got together, and then we'll go into the brand itself. Bragg a little bit, please.
SPEAKER_06Um well my background is uh uh is is retail really. Um ended up um owning a um uh a reasonably well-known English brand called um Early Learning Centre, which uh uh makes uh and retails uh educational uh toys for children. Uh and we bought that brand uh back in the the nineties. Peter Peter Ellison I did um turned it round, um sold it in 2004, um having turned it round uh And uh decided uh, well, I mean, the the reason that we started a watch brand really is out of boredom. Um at one level uh you think uh when you sold a company, uh wouldn't it be nice to uh to put your feet up for a while? But actually after about three to four weeks, um already beginning to get it feet, um, wanted to do something else. Uh had known Chris for many years. Uh he'd been my uh my assistant merchandiser back in the 80s when I was a buyer, um, and we'd uh lost touch a little but got back in touch with each other. He was at the same time we were selling uh early learning centre, he was selling his um import and export business. He he was um uh uh supplying Disney uh apparel into Europe. Um and we were literally on a boat on the Thames um whiling uh whiling a very pleasant uh summer's afternoon away, and uh we decided why don't we do something together? Well, what will it be? Um and we'd built a pretty successful um internet business at Early Learning Center. Uh, we'd been one of the very early adopters back in sort of '97 when people didn't think you could sell things like climbing frames off the internet, and we sort of disproved that theory, and the growth of that particular channel was was significant at Early Learning Centre and helped to help to turn the business around for us. Uh uh, and I having spent uh many more years than I care to mention in um in bricks and mortar retail at that stage decided to have a uh a pure online play. We wanted it to be something that A, we were interested in, um, products that we really related to, uh, but also that had um you know global possibilities and potential uh and that were kind of easy to relatively easy to ship around the world. Well that ruled out sofas. Uh so uh um we we ended up uh what is it that all three of us were really into? And although we knew nothing about watches at the time from a technical aspect, I have to admit, uh we all love watches for different reasons uh and decided well that's what we're gonna do. Um and then a a lot of good fortune came our way, we knew people um in the industry, um uh we were given access to information that honestly it would normally take people decades to find. We were we were being shown into um top-end watch manufacturers within weeks of uh of deciding to set the business up. And we learned some really interesting stuff in that process. Um, because we were still in the in the mode of where what what kind of watches are we going to do here? Where are we gonna pitch this in the marketplace? And what we discovered was quite astonishing, really, for people certainly from outside the industry at that time. Uh, the first the two things that really uh were the most astonishing was one by by large measure the large majority of um uh luxury watch brands were using the same components. Um we couldn't actually believe that uh the swatch group was uh was uh through through its uh it's largely through its um its movement manufacturer, Etter, was supplying huge swathes of the uh of the watch industry with with the selfsame movements. So that was kind of curious to us. Um but the second thing we discovered is that we could access that as well. Uh and um therefore we thought, well that's that's interesting. And then we discovered in our search through these manufacturers that some of the multiples that some of these brands were applying were quite remarkable. Um if a watch, let's take any number for simplicity, if a watch was costing £100 to manufacture, uh the record that we found was that that would be on sale under one brand name that I won't mention, but you would know very well, at £3,400.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_06Um a 34 times markup. Uh now, though that was that was the most outrageous example of a markup we discovered. Um but most of them were around these sort of 10 to 15. And we just thought, well, that's interesting in its own right. They're genuinely largely producing the same quality of watches, and the thing that was separating them was the amount of marketing spend and branding spend that they they were applying. Uh we felt that that was um, therefore there was a there was an opportunity here to with a a new model, because frankly, nobody had gone pure online only on on on uh internet watches at on the luxury watches at time, uh a low-cost um distribution model that we were we were controlling, i.e. through the internet, combined with a um with a sort of a uh uh a different philosophy around markup. And we decided that we would apply a markup very simply of around three times to every cost price, which meant immediately for equivalent watchers, we were going to be less than half the price of anybody um who was producing something similar, and in many cases up to uh um up to you know a fifth of the price. Um, and that's the position we decided to adopt.
SPEAKER_07So, Mike, um it says that you were you disrupted the industry basically by coming in and doing more realistic and honest and being very transparent with your markups. So the rest of the watch industry, have they kind of taken notice notice of this and um reduced their markups? Or how have they reacted?
SPEAKER_06Um well, I mean the the phrase industry disruptor is is is gets used by people about us. We we we didn't really uh when we started, I don't think that phrase even existed. We were we just wanted to we saw an opportunity to do something, we applied um ourselves to to it and um and it and it evolved. It seems that uh it it caused a bit of disruption. Um not so much, I think, that um that any anybody has uh really uh aped it as yet. Um and indeed uh what we've seen in the subsequent uh sort of 12 years since we uh started is um I think there is a trend towards um brands beginning to try and take control of their own supply chain chain uh and distribution chain. So you've seen a growth, a huge growth of uh of boutique shops um uh that are owned by the brands um over that period, but still the vast majority of their uh of their distribution is through third parties. Um and I think it's a long haul uh for any of the uh any of the traditional brands to change away from a wholesale model to to our sort of model. And so there has been, although I think it's been um acknowledged by people that we um that that we are doing something different, and I think um with the passage of time, I think a grudging respect for what we what we're doing. Because I think originally people were deeply suspicious that we couldn't be actually um selling the quality of watch that we purported to be selling, at the prices we were selling at. I think um, you know, over time, of course, that's been um proven uh not to be the case that of course we are we're selling the quality of quality watches that we uh we we we purport to sell. And I think therefore there's a grudging respect. But but actually, no, there's been very little crowding of our position by anybody. Most have taken the um taken the route to uh to wholesale distribute, which means that we're relatively protected from.
SPEAKER_07Okay, um Mike, I kind of want to just get a couple more questions in. That the line's crackling a little bit, but I think we can maintain it. And uh you've got a guy reversing somewhere outside in the fore court by the sounds of it. So he's he sounds Chris.
SPEAKER_06You could be right, actually. As long as he doesn't come through the windows.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, look out look out through the blinds there. There might be a huge crash about to happen. Um could you just tell me a little bit? So you you actually have Swiss movement um in all your watches, but what part of the watch makes it British? Uh, how much how British basically is Christopher Ward?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, good question. The um all of the design elements um of the watch um are completed here. Uh we have our own design studio in Maidenhead. Of course, we um we get um in you know sort of uh input from our colleagues in Beale as well, but they're largely focused on the uh on the movement side of things. Um and you know, particularly our our own calibre um SH21, which we launched in 2014, is the the work of our master watchmaker Johannes Janke. We're about to um later this autumn launch our new automatic complication of the five-day power reserve, uh which will go into um a new case which uh Adrian Bushman, our senior designer here in Maidenhead, has uh developed. And the if you like the the case itself is a is a is a is a is a is is an example of Englishness for us because we um when we were talking about the briefing for the design of this case, all of the um all of the influences that we wanted to bring to bear were were in fact uh English influencers, including, and I've actually got in front of me now Peter, um, because we've been talking about this watch only this morning. Um one of the things that uh one of my prize possession uh is probably my Aston Martin DB9.
SPEAKER_07Oh yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_06Which I still think is I still think is the most beautiful car that's ever been designed, and it's beautiful from every angle um and has that sort of flowing, very English sort of sense of flowing lines. And what that um along with um you know influences like uh taking influences from Thomas Hederwick, the the famous English designer who's famous for things like the Rolling Bridge Um et al. These are the sort of inputs that we we brought we we try and bring to bear in our own inimitable way. And uh so so all of the influences of design um uh on this particular watch are largely from English roots. Um you know it's understated, there's a kind of an understatedness about um uh about English Englishness and English design in our in, we believe. And uh we we don't we we we don't shout loud, we don't want our designs to shout too loudly. Um there's enough of that going on. Um and we tr we're trying really hard to develop a sort of a more understated but very distinctive signature, and I I think we're still working on that. And the the C1 is uh probably the example that I'm most proud of of this sort of English signature that we're trying to bring to bear. So the design is really um uh and and the kind of I think also the um if you like the um the sort of attitude of of of of of ourselves um makes the brand English. Um we are um we're a little you know in some regards I think we're uh as a brand we're a we're a little diffident. Um we could shout more loudly. Um but one of the things that we we absolutely you know are in awe of the watch industry and the um much of it at least, but one of the things that we I don't particularly like about the industry is is its um its tendency to the hyperbolic. Um it no it it it it there is a tendency in the in the luxury watch industry particularly, I think, to exaggerate.
SPEAKER_07Um these these uh sorry to interrupt, like the half-truths where you would say some parts aren't necessarily coming from Switzerland, but maybe source from Thailand?
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean I think I think I think there's there's there's the there's slightly different things, I think. Well one is whatever whatever it is, uh there is a tendency to to um extol its virtues um uh uh you know in a in in ridiculous ways. Um the the issue that you're uh talking about, I think, is more to do with transparency um or lack of it in the watch industry. There's no question that uh um you know there are there are uh many brands out there whom if people knew were who claim to be uh making everything in uh say let's say in Switzerland, actually the law in Switzerland doesn't require everything to be made in Switzerland, but nevertheless, people will claim um components uh are produced and manufactured in Switzerland, or don't say it, don't or just don't say anything, which by implication uh leads people to believe that they are. Uh and and you know we we try and be transparent uh and honest, and it's just the way we are, and I think that's over time I think people have begun to uh appreciate there is a sort of um um a willingness on our part to you know be open about everything, and and I think that's helped the brand, and it's part of the brand, in fact. I think it's a it's quite an important characteristic of the Christopher brand um as to you know and how it's perceived by people.
SPEAKER_07Excellent. Well uh thanks Mike. Thanks for filling us in. That was um that was pretty educational. So uh just lastly before I go, um I know you'd you kind of cut the overheads down by not really fussing with a lot of marketing and a lot of brand ambassadors, for example. But if you could choose one brand ambassador to wear the Christopher Award watch, especially the uh the release of the C1 uh that's coming out in November. Which one would you uh which person would you like to choose?
SPEAKER_06Oh god, that that that that that that that's a that's an interesting question. One the one guy that I've always thought really um works well would work well with our brand is Bradley Wiggins. I just love the kind of um A, he's uh he's a pretty successful chap, but B uh he has a sort of um uh he doesn't take himself that seriously, although he does a really serious job. He just seems like a decent, a decent guy. Uh so Bradley Wiggins, there you go.
SPEAKER_07Alright, good shout. Um all right, cheers, Mike. I've just been in the in the meantime trying to look up what Bond film the DB9 was in, but I don't think they even had the DB9 in a Bond film today. They went. Oh yes, they did. Oh they did. Wikipedia's lying to me. God damn.
SPEAKER_06Well they they they uh I think it was the first of whatever was it um the first of the films that uh your man the current Bond is in. Um they blew up six of them, I think. For the the somersault in car when it crashed. Absolutely. You sound like you're a DB9 fan yourself.
SPEAKER_07Well I I am I am, I'm just I've completely dropped the ball on that one. There's no way I can leave that in the podcast. I'll have to uh do some uh very clever editing to manoeuvre that one. Very good. I've actually seen that smashed car because they have that in the film museum um down in Covent Garden, so they have uh what's Bond in Motion. I don't know if you've seen it, but they have um I haven't actually next time you're in London and you're near Covent Garden, down in the film museum they have Bond in Motion, so they have pretty much all of the Bond cars apart from the AMC Hornet, I believe. That was the pin. Oh, is that right? Um that was in the Mem of the Golden Gun. But the one that did do all the the somersaults, that one is there in a smashed heap in the corner. So um that's that's quite a cool, cool. But very nice bit of kit. Well done. Thanks, Mike. I'll I'll finally let you go.
SPEAKER_06Thank y'all, Peter. Yeah, have a have a good rest of your day, mate. Alright, you too. Thanks, Mike. Bye bye.
SPEAKER_07Mike France from Christopher Ward. So, Christopher, are you gonna behave if I let you back on the podcast?
SPEAKER_02Whatever you say. I'm I'm I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_07That's okay, but you know, just kind of mind your P's and Q's. This is a family show. Even my nephew listens to this. I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_02I'm not crazy, you know. Don't let the boy think I am.
SPEAKER_07Look, no one thinks you're crazy. We're all huge fans. But tell us, what is your favourite brand of watch? Take out my dick. Oh god, there you go, Ann. Right, that is it. Take it out. No, no, that is it. Take it out! You are you're incorrigible. Right, we're gonna move on. We're gonna move on to John Argento from Shinola Watches. On the podcast now, we have John Argento, the head of Shinola in Europe. How are you doing, John?
SPEAKER_09Very well, Peter.
SPEAKER_07Thanks for having me. Thank you for taking the time out to speak to us. Uh John, please just tell us a little bit about the brand Shinola, how it started, and especially how it got into making watches as well, please.
SPEAKER_09Sure. Well, our founder, Tom Kartis, I mean, he's a veteran of the watch industry, and you know, he has quite an impressive track record, and he had been in the watch industry for you know over 20 25 years. And following the you know economic crisis of 2008, he was inspired uh to create a new project. You know, watches was in his blood, it's what he knew best, and he also had this idea, again, you know, inspired by all the bad news that was coming out of the economic downturn, um, he he cited a few key objectives in what he wanted his new project to achieve. And you know, primarily it was to create jobs, and you know, to do that by creating as much manufacturing in the US and ultimately producing products that were of super high quality, so very high um values in terms of production standards. So he decided to call on his friends from the watch industry, and you know, some of those friends uh are from a company called Rhonda, it's a Swiss company that's essentially a world leader in the production of quartz watch movements. And it's a family business, and you know, they had a history that went you know far back. And so he invited Ronda over to Detroit and introduced the idea of this project to them. And essentially what he wanted to do was to create, you know, he wanted to build a watch factory in Detroit. And the idea at first came across as crazy because Detroit didn't have any kind of watchmaking history, there was no real um you know, workforce there that had experience with watchmaking, and you know, just the investment, and at the time when the economy was already kind of not in the healthiest of shapes, this the whole thing didn't seem to immediately click as a good idea, but ultimately they were convinced, and you know, that's where we are today. So we have a watch factory that was uh built in Detroit within an academic institution, actually, it's called the College for Creative Studies, and Ronda basically helped us to set up this factory there. And I mean, it was a mammoth undertaking and risk. And you know, at that point, we didn't know whether we'd even be able to produce the watches. You know, we had, like I said, we had to build the factory, we had to find people who were qualified and then you know train them. And so we did that. Um and what happened was when we got to a point, you know, after about a year or so of essentially setting everything up and then taking a lot more time to recruit people and train them, we started to put them through production practices. And the idea initially was not to create a brand. It was actually, you know, possibly we were going to have a kind of supply chain company where we would be producing uh watch movements for other companies, for other brands. But in order to do this, you know, Tom had the idea that we had to show the credibility of what we were doing and the quality of what we were doing, and so like produce some of our own products so that we could show them around to these companies we would eventually want to kind of um work with us. And so, with that, we created a small collection of our own watches. And I think that was the true genesis of the Shinola brand. And so at that point, the idea was just to create a small assortment of about eight watches. And you know, I'll I'll fast forward, but eventually what we did is we presented these watches online and we estimated that you know it would take a few months probably to sell our first production run. But we were essentially asking people to buy a watch which they had never seen or held in their hands before, and they were going to pay $500 and have to wait about four months to receive it. So we thought, you know, this will take some time and it'll give us a chance to kind of build up some awareness. And we had started communicating online, you know, people could follow our development process. So it was quite engaging. It was a lot of storytelling to it. Well, the interesting thing is that when we put those watches up for sale, they sold out within a week. And so that's when we knew we were really onto something, and yeah, here we are today.
SPEAKER_07Where were the sorry John, where were people buying them through? How did you market them?
SPEAKER_09They were only available online, so those initial watches were only available online, and like I said, uh they had to basically wait four months um for for them to be produced. And then that was the the kind of spark of turning this into a bigger project. I mean, by that point, we were already quite Committed and we have already started to apply those principles that I listed earlier, you know, the job creation, the US manufacturing angle, and producing quality products to other uh categories. Uh, and so our key pillar. So while we're known primarily for our watches, we're uh we're also making leather goods, we make bicycles, we make you know journals and notebooks, and we're extending that into a whole uh range of other product categories. You know, later this year we'll be introducing uh jewelry. Uh, we will also be introducing an audio program, which will include turntables and speakers and headphones. And, you know, we've talked about um hopefully within the next year or so opening up an eyewear factory. Um we're looking into the area around Chicago to do that. So, you know, Shinola's just getting started, but it's on a mission to basically carry out these principles in a much bigger way than what we're doing today.
SPEAKER_07Excellent. Um, I mean it's still a relatively young company, isn't it? I think uh originally it was a shoe polish company, if that's correct. And then uh Tom came in around about 2001 and took it on and uh developed it into a watchmaking business. Um so it's a manufacturing workforce in Detroit, but yeah, it's Swiss uses Swiss movement. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_09Well, actually, I should clarify that yeah, Shinola, the name brand, is in fact uh an old uh company. I mean it's over 100 years and it was indeed a shoe polish brand. In 2011 is when Shinola was founded, and Shinola was the name we acquired to kind of name this this project, this brand. And the idea is that you know Shinola was meant to represent what you know, at the time that Chinola shoe polish was at its peak, it really represented the the best in American, you know, reputation for quality innovation, design, and and good stuff coming out of the US. Um today it's true that we're we're based out of Detroit. We are a very proud American uh company. We chose to call Detroit our home. Um, but what we're what we've done is actually we're not creating Swiss movements or we're not using Swiss movements. We have our own factory, and within that factory, we uh get have components. Some of those components are from Switzerland, some are from other countries, and basically with those components, we build watches in our Detroit factory. Uh, you can actually even go online on our website, you know, on Chanola.com or Shanola.co.uk, and you know, we have videos, you can see uh, well, my colleagues basically, you know, making watches in the factory. So the the movements that we make, and like I said, Rhonda was the company, it's a Swiss watch company that helped us set up our factory, are are of equal um what do you call it, standing, I guess, to the Swiss movements that are coming out of a Ronda factory in uh Switzerland.
SPEAKER_07Okay, so so you have Swiss parts then effectively. Um they're assembled in Detroit in the factories there. Uh is it is it an assembly line? Um, how many people do you have on the line and how many people are actually watchmakers, um trained horologists putting the parts together?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I mean, uh assembly line, you could say yes in some ways, but it's it's much more than that. I mean, it's uh it's a group of people who essentially rotate positions. So um, of course, they are quite specialized in in the production of certain areas, but they all kind of or most of them uh can rotate. So while they might be uh on one shift executing a particular thing, you know, producing something particular, they may not be doing that the whole day and it might move to a different aspect of the watch that they'll be working on. Um, your question about how many of them are actual watchmakers, I mean, all of them are now watchmakers, but interestingly, when we first started to recruit, we only had two people who had previous watch experience who we would have called watch trainers when they walked in through the door. Most of uh you know, the people that were we recruited uh had no previous watchmaking uh history. We did have a lot of people who had manufacturing experience. You know, Detroit uh at the end of the day was kind of the you know capital of US manufacturing, and especially with the auto industry, we found a lot of people who had very strong manufacturing skills. I mean, in terms of the leather straps that we make, we actually have our own leather strap factory as well within the Detroit facility. You have a lot of people who used to work in the um upholstery departments of car assembly. So they were working on you know making the seats and things like that. So we have a very strong dedicated uh team in terms of numbers of employees. In Detroit, well, I would say uh globally now Shinolo has in excess of 500 uh employees. About half of those people are uh working in some aspect of uh manufacturing. And the mission is to you know continue to grow that. We want to create more jobs, we want to open up more factories, and we want to uh yeah become bigger.
SPEAKER_07Okay, great. Um John, I was wondering if you could settle a little debate that I was having with um some friends the other day. Uh I've got a friend that is a is a keen watch buyer. Um and his one stipulation when he goes out and buys a watch, he's got numerous different brands in his collection, he always says it has to be Swiss made. It's kind of his thing. Um and I think a lot of other people share that philosophy. Would you say yourself that um it has to be Swiss made? A decent watch has to come from Switzerland, or is that myth ready to be debunked?
SPEAKER_09Well, I wouldn't entirely agree. I mean, certainly, you know, Swiss made is a mark of distinction that is you know renowned and um respected. So I'm there's nothing to take away uh from that. But there are a lot of other you know reputable watch companies outside of the US who are not using uh Swiss movements who I would argue are uh equally um valuable and of and of great quality, of equal quality even. I think you know the kind of movement the watch has, in all honesty, is probably um dependent on the category of watch you're looking for. I mean, I would say up to a certain price level, you know, somewhere around $400 maybe, um, it's less important. I mean, there are massive watch businesses that have been built on um, you know, production that has nothing to do with Switzerland. But I think it becomes more important, you know, just like anything else, of quality, when you start to enter into uh a different level. Um, you know, the watches that we produce uh have basically they've adopted we've adopted Swiss expertise. I mean, the Swiss ultimately are experts at watchmaking, and so we have learned from them, we've adopted a lot of their um practices. And yeah, I I would say that with within the the industry, um, it's certainly a lot of learnings that have been adopted by other countries, and uh we have successfully applied that uh to what we do.
SPEAKER_07Cool, yeah. Okay, great. So I mean it's still it's an ambiguous argument, really. It's it's one that will probably rage on, but nothing will be absolutely resolute because it's all opinion and conjecture. Um lastly, John, uh was uh where does Shinola sell best in? If it's made in Detroit, um, but you're the head of marketing over there in Europe. Where's your key demographic and where is Shinola getting shipped to the most?
SPEAKER_09Well, you know, we're an American company that was initially founded, like I said, in Detroit, and so we started in uh our domestic market. So the US continues to be the strongest uh market for us. Uh we have extended into, you know, initially into Canada and then eventually came over to Europe just under two years ago. And so while we're performing well outside of the US, uh the US still remains the number one uh market. You know, interestingly, we do have, especially out of our uh our own retail stores, we do have a lot of international uh traffic. And we're seeing that the appeal of the Shinola brand extends just really across uh the globe. I mean, we have a lot of requests from Asia, from the Middle East, and and also from other European countries where we haven't quite uh penetrated as deeply yet. So we're very optimistic that uh that you know that the brand will continue to grow and that you know people essentially love what we do. I mean, there is uh great you know pride in what we're doing, but it really ultimately the customer decides on whether they like what we're doing and they love our story, they love our product, our quality is you know unparalleled. Um so yeah, we're very optimistic and and happy with what we've achieved.
SPEAKER_07Okay, great. Uh well thanks for joining us, John. Uh thanks for taking time out of your day. Like I said, if you want to check out the Shinola Range, um I guess shinola.com is the place to go.
SPEAKER_09That's right. And uh we also have shinola.co.uk. And we have a store in uh in the Soho neighborhood of London at 28 Fubert's place.
SPEAKER_07Excellent. So go check that out if you're local. Um and lastly, John, I know I keep saying lastly, but this is you must get asked this all the time. But do you know if they've actually got a Robocop statue built in Detroit yet?
SPEAKER_09A Robocop statue built in Detroit?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I mean they uh they petitioned for it, so uh they were gonna make a statue, and the mayor said he put it out to the people, who would you like to be canonized, who would you like to be celebrated? Uh one guy said uh Robocop, they dismissed it, and then everyone in Detroit went, actually, that's a brilliant idea. And they put a petition together, and I heard last I heard they were building it, so it was gonna get built, but I haven't actually seen anything else anywhere else. But uh I was wondering if you had your eyes on the ground over there in Detroit, whether you you'd know anything about that.
SPEAKER_09Well, I tell you this, I've been to Detroit quite a few times, and uh my last trip was just a couple of months ago, and I have not yet spotted a RoboCop uh statue. I'm pretty sure that's something I would have seen if it was um if it was up somewhere. But uh but no. Are you hoping that it uh comes to light anytime soon? Oh god, yeah. That'd be fun another reason to get to Detroit, right? Come and see us, and then to also see Robocop.
SPEAKER_07Well it would be part of the tour, yeah. I'd have an open top bus to see that. That'd be great.
SPEAKER_09Well worth it.
SPEAKER_07Okay, thanks, John. Um I'd better let you go. But uh take care. And uh everyone check out the Shinola watch range. Uh it looks very good on the line, so. Uh speak to you soon. Okay. Thanks. Take care, mate. Bye-bye. John Argento there from Shinola. Thanks for that, John. Uh Christopher, I don't suppose you've got anything to add? No. Really? I mean, earlier on you couldn't stop talking about watches, and now you have nothing to say?
SPEAKER_02I said no.
SPEAKER_07Okay, you don't think you're being a little bit churlish? I don't want to. Okay, well that kind of sums it up. I mean, I got you on the podcast. I thought you might have some kind of insight, but this was a bad choice.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I guess Dad. You know what? You're a grown man, Christopher. I expected better from you. Too bad. It is too bad, because I wanted to talk about watches with you, but if you don't want to talk about watches, I'm gonna speak to someone that does. I'm gonna speak to Elizabeth Doer, the editor-in-chief at Quill Impad. Take it away. Okay, so on the podcast now we have the editor-in-chief and co-founder of Quillimpad, Elizabeth Doer. Elizabeth, am I saying your name right?
SPEAKER_00That's absolutely correct. Good morning, Peter.
SPEAKER_07Good morning. Thanks for joining us today. Um So, Elizabeth, just tell us a little bit about the site, please, Quill Impad, a little bit about yourself. Brag a little, if you will, please.
SPEAKER_00Well, I've been a journalist in the uh watch industry for over 20 years. I've written a few books, I've written for for many, many, many magazines, and uh the time came to develop something of my own because I felt like the the times were right to do that. And so I co-founded Quill and Pad with uh a good friend of mine, Ian Skellern, who's been a watch journalist in Switzerland for many years as well. And we focus basically on the high end of watchmaking, um the luxury timepieces, the the complicated mechanics, and also the independent scene, which is um something most people are not familiar with.
SPEAKER_07Okay, cool. Um the first question that I really have in in the press into my mind is do how much attention do women actually pay to a man's watch? Is it uh obviously you do, but in terms of like your friends, um do they is it something that they notice? Is it something more than the shoes, more than the eyes? How much does a man's watch come into play?
SPEAKER_00Well, for me personally, I look at the watch before the eyes or the shoes.
SPEAKER_07Oh wow, okay.
SPEAKER_00But I can't say that's typical. I would in fact say that's not typical.
SPEAKER_07Sure, sure. I mean, is there something that can give it away, whether it's a cheap watch? I mean, I see so many watches now at a glance, it I think wow, that's quite a nice, fancy watch. And then you kind of investigate it a little more, and then perhaps it's not all it seems.
SPEAKER_00It's that's very true. The the the astounding thing is that a lot of the parts that someone will notice from the outside, the case, the bracelet, the strap, in many cases come from the same place as maybe a more expensive watch might have. The cheap watches, the expensive watches tend to kind of source their parts in a lot of the same places. But what will set them apart is design and the and the quality of the finish. So after the parts come out of the machine, what they do with it then will set it apart from um from each other. And that's in general. When you're talking about lower cost watches, mid-range watches, on the expensive watches, everything is is customized, obviously. So every part of a watch will be for that watch and not off the rack. Um I think most people can't tell the difference unless they look closer at a glance. It is hard to say. I agree.
SPEAKER_07And do you think that annoys the real top-end brands of watches? Is it something that's just come along in the last five years or so that you know cheaper watches are now upping their game in terms of aesthetics?
SPEAKER_00I I think possibly, and it might have a lot to do with, and I I I don't have any evidence to back this up. Uh, I haven't ever been asked this question, to be honest. But I think um I think the the fake industry has a lot to do with it. There's a lot of a lot of things coming out of China, for example, these days, where the quality is really quite good. It's surprisingly good, um, comparatively speaking, and it is hard to tell what's what and and where things come from these days. And I think because the fakes are now becoming so good that even the lower lower end manufacturers have had to up their games.
SPEAKER_07Right, okay. I guess that's where a brand would actually just lean back on its own name slightly, though. If you if you are the likes of an amigo or a Seiko or something like that, you just go, well, it's okay, we know that people will recognize the watch through the name. Um so you know, that's why we have brand loyalty and such.
SPEAKER_00And that's exactly true. That's um many brands actually use their name as their as their branding or their quote unquote Swiss made, if you will. Even if they are Swiss made, if you're a Cartier or or whoever, you you don't actually need that Swiss made on the dial. There are several brands who choose not to put it on the dial anymore, relying on their brand name, which is actually quite smart because the brand is actually more of a um a quality seal than than the Swiss made seal, in my opinion. Um yeah. Um that yeah.
SPEAKER_07No, that's okay. I thought we were gonna expand. Uh but moving on to the Swiss, I mean, we're I was talking to uh a couple of friends. I mean, when they go watch shopping, um you know, I have one friend who's got the prerequisite that it has to be a Swiss watch. So speaking to the guys at Vermont and speaking to the chap over in Chinola. Um so they have their parts uh imported from the Swiss and they put it all together there. How important is it do you think to have everything manufactured in Switzerland for it to be a you know a really good finished product?
SPEAKER_00Well, it is a great signpost for somebody who's looking looking for a good watch and maybe doesn't know the industry that well. That that Swiss made is a great first flag to say, okay, I don't know the difference. I'm I'm not loyal to a specific brand, and what how do I know what's a good watch? And using that that Swiss made label is a great signpost to start from. It's there's no doubt about it. People who know more about watches, however, know that you can get superb quality in other places. Seiko in Japan, the Germans are probably making uh close to the best watches in the world today. Um few people know that. Um so it's a good place to start and it's a good place to learn about watches and and the qualities you can get. You don't have to stay there. And I think if you're if you're um somebody who's who's who likes to research and look into things, you'll quickly find out it's other places make great watches too.
SPEAKER_07Right, okay. Um well that's interesting. So uh I can go back to my friend now and say it's not entirely true. It's it doesn't have to be a stipulation on the world.
SPEAKER_00No, it it doesn't, but I think that having been said, Braymott and Shinola are two very, very good um examples of a great way to go about things today. They've both been really smart about how they've how they've gone about their their businesses, building their businesses. Um, they're both great watches, superb quality. I would recommend them to anyone. Um, I like the fact I was I was born in Detroit, so I really like the fact I like what Chanel is doing. I like I like their marketing, I like how they're building up the city, I like how they're being part of everything, but they chose to keep costs down. And in order to do that, they they're sourcing parts in other places. If you start making um parts like that in your own country, the watch will indefinitely become more expensive. There's no doubt there's no other way to do it. There's another brand out in in uh Pennsylvania, Cobalt, who's who's begun making their own cases and some of their other parts, and their watches are about three times or four times the cost of a shinola. And that's okay too. It's it's a different quality watch, it's a different thing, it's more American-made, but it's not fully American-made. It's hard to hard to be that today. You'd have to go into the really upper end of watchmaking, into the independent watchmakers to find that. And then we're talking about 100,000, 50,000, those kinds of prices.
SPEAKER_07Right, okay. I mean, Elizabeth, you've got about 20 years of experience in this industry. You've seen many trends come and go. What do you think of like Apple bringing out their watches? Um, in contrast to like vintage watches and obviously analog watches. What is your opinion on those?
SPEAKER_00I think um right now we're in the midst of some heavy trends. I think the Apple Watch is um, it's been actually a great tool to make people aware of what's out there. Some people who are who are iPhone users or iPad users look at the Apple Watch and say, hey, I've never thought about wearing a watch in this generation. I'll wear that for a while, see how I like it. They'll probably find they're they're not gonna like being connected all the time like that. And they may move on to uh to an analog watch, to a to a mechanical watch, even from there. So actually, it's not, in my opinion, the Apple Watch is not a super threat. It's actually been um been sort of a catalyst in getting getting watches back on the younger generation's wrists. Um we go through the watch industry is is extremely subjected to trends, it has been in its entire existence. This is nothing different.
SPEAKER_07Right, okay. Yeah, I guess it's I mean, the similar this would be to have say that like the Kindles are knocking out books, you know, they're putting print out of work, but it's really getting people invested in reading in the first place, and then obviously people can pick up a book if they want. It's the same with what you're saying, is the same with an Apple Watch can introduce other people to all kinds of horology.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Or you can take it a step further in digital music. It you know, the vinyl records are coming back now, even as sort of the collector's editions. Uh, we have the same thing in watchmaking.
SPEAKER_07Okay, great. Um, lastly, Elizabeth, can I just ask you a rather personal question? How many watches do you own?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I haven't really counted, but I'm I'm not the typical collector. I don't have a huge collection. I think I have um oh maybe 10 or 15 really nice watches.
SPEAKER_07Uh-huh. And when it comes to reviewing them, uh do they send you a watch and say, look, this is yours to keep or this is we're gonna send you this and you better mail this back recorded because this costs over 50 grand.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. No, I I never get them to review to keep. It's always go back. The ones that I own are ones that I own.
SPEAKER_07Okay, alright. Well, thank you for your transparency. Elizabeth, it's been great talking to you. Thank you. It's quillenpad.com, uh, where people can go and uh check out all the reviews of the latest watches.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And the high those will be the high-end watches. We won't have the Apple Watch on our site.
SPEAKER_07Okay, no, okay. Alright, brilliant. All right, thanks, Elizabeth. Thank you, Elizabeth Dewar from Quill Empad. Okay, lastly, we're gonna have a bit of a fashion news roundup with our own fashion insider, Andre Letterbaudier.
SPEAKER_04It's over to you, Andrebaudier.
SPEAKER_07Okay, so joining us now is Andre Letabodier. How are you doing, Andre?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm fantastic. How are you, Peter?
SPEAKER_07I'm awesome, our very own fashion insider. So, what's new in the world of fashion this week, please, Andre?
SPEAKER_01Wow, well, it's been quite an exciting week, actually, considering that it is London Fashion Week, which of course is our women's wear focused. Um, the big news has come out is David Beckham's his involvement with the Kenton Carwin brand, which um for those of you who aren't aware of it, it's a Saville Roe brand, and he's come on almost in a consultant's capacity. Um and yeah, the collection is actually really strong. Weirdly enough, it only focuses more on his rugby playing days rather than his football playing days.
SPEAKER_07I love that, yeah, and and also some cricket tops as well. I mean, I know the brand um started off doing some stuff for the cricket, you know, making cri cricket sweaters, etc. So they haven't strayed too far away from that. But how much influence do you think he's had on the brand? On the collection?
SPEAKER_01Um it looks as if they've really kind of more dug into his archive, so really looked for things that would mean something to him and to people who are quite invested in David Beckham from the beginning of his career. For example, um, like the Three Lions emblem that is found throughout the collection. Um, and it's all quite vintagey, so it is almost like you're looking back into his own wardrobe, but it's been updated with a bit more of a contemporary feel. So that's really exciting, actually. Um, it's a new direction for the brand, and it'll be interesting to see what kind of turns up and what people react to. So yeah, definitely very cool news.
SPEAKER_07Awesome. Yeah, it looks pretty good. Um you can actually head over to the site if you want to have a look at some of the collection, menswearstyle.co.uk. Looks very oxbridge. Yes. Incredible.
SPEAKER_01It looks like something that you'd want to go for a punt in.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, exactly. So uh what else have you got your eye on this week, Audrey?
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, unfortunately, I'm quite sad this week. Um, simply because summer really and truly has officially ended. But this is a great time and a great opportunity to have a look in your wardrobe and see what's coming up for next season. Um, just the bits and pieces that can be taken from last season, you know, see what condition they're in, and you know, just add some new accessories or something quite interesting. Um, I had the pleasure also of attending an event with Next last week at the Rosewood Hotel. So massive shout out to the team at the Rosewood for treating us all so lovely, and for Next, of course, for um organizing it. And they're coming out with a full wool suit in their tailoring offering. Um do you do you actually wear Next menswear? It's not something that's been much on my radar.
SPEAKER_07I used to. Uh wicked these days. No, I've um I used to have a girlfriend that would queue up at like six in the morning when the next sales are on. Yes. Like for about three or four hours, it was insane, and then she would just come away with a ten-pound shirt that I'd hate. But uh what were the highlights then? The wool suit.
SPEAKER_01Well, they've got um they're they're trying their best not to alienate their core next customer, but they are a couple of highlights. They are putting in a bit of shirling detail into some of their bummer jackets. Um, they had some actually really nice suits. Considering the low price point, I think it is something that guys can quickly go and try on and you know take it like off the peg. It's not a bad option considering it's high streets, and they're only going for about 150 to about 200 pounds per suit, which personally I think that's actually really good, especially if it's good quality.
SPEAKER_07That's very digestible, isn't it? Especially if you want to have a couple of suits in your wardrobe. You don't just want the killer suit that you wear to every event. You want to have a bit of flexibility and some range there.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. No, I I completely agree. Um, so yeah, definitely keep an eye out for next. They're they're coming in hot.
SPEAKER_07Awesome. I'll keep an eye out. Thanks, Andre. I'll let you get back to it. Oh, um, how's the uh the pole dancing going?
SPEAKER_01Uh it is fantastic. I'm currently training for um a performance next month. So um in one uh one aspect, it's going really well. In the other aspect, I'm kind of freaking out slightly, but I'll let you know how it goes.
SPEAKER_07Alright, we'll keep an eye on it. Alright, take care, sweetheart. Speak to you soon.
SPEAKER_01Bye Peter.
SPEAKER_07Have fun bye.
SPEAKER_01Bye.
SPEAKER_07Andre Letterbodier there. Okay, so we've come to the end of the podcast. It was a mammoth one this week, so congratulations to all that made it through. Thank you to my guests, Giles English, John Argento, Mike France, Elizabeth Dewar, and Andre Letterbodier, and of course, an honorary mention to Christopher Walken.
SPEAKER_02Uh, and I'd like to add my thanks to the members of the Academy.
SPEAKER_07Okay, Christopher, let's not get carried away here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you all.
SPEAKER_07Okay, let's not encourage him. Please, please, be seated. Be seated. Please. Okay, yep, enough of that. So if you want to head over to the website, it's www.menswearstyle.co.uk. There you'll find all the blogs, features, competitions, and if you want to follow us on the social, it's at menswear style. Okay, that's it from me. Until next week. I'll see you soon.
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