Menswear Style Podcast
The Menswear Style Podcast is a leading men’s fashion and menswear podcast exploring men’s style, clothing, grooming, lifestyle and the business behind some of the world’s most exciting fashion brands. Hosted by Peter Brooker, each episode features conversations with menswear designers, fashion entrepreneurs, innovative brand founders and industry experts from across the global fashion and apparel industry. Discover the stories behind established and emerging clothing brands, from the first idea and challenges of launching a fashion start-up to building a successful international business. Guests share their experiences and insights across fashion design, sustainability, manufacturing, marketing, branding, eCommerce, retail, social media and business growth. Whether you’re interested in men’s fashion and style, discovering new menswear brands, starting your own clothing label, or learning how successful fashion businesses are built, the Menswear Style Podcast takes you behind the scenes of the modern menswear industry. New conversations with the people shaping the future of menswear, men’s style and fashion.
Menswear Style Podcast
Colin Dunn of Johnnie Walker, Ewan Gunn of Haig Club & Greg Dillon of Great Drams
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In this episode we talk exclusively about whisky. We interview the Ambassador for Johnnie Walker, Colin Dunn, who explains the differences between blends and single malts. We speak to the Editor of Great Drams, Greg Dillon, who talks about the significance of Peat in Whisky, and finally we have a live tasting of the Haig Club 'Clubman' with Ambassador, Ewan Gunn, who gives us an insight into what its like working alongside David Beckham.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And this episode we're gonna talk about whiskey. We're gonna have a live tasting with Yuan Gunn, who is the brand ambassador for the Hey Club. Oh, that's lovely. That's really good.
SPEAKER_04We're very pleased with it.
SPEAKER_05I literally can't wait for my girlfriend to come back now, walk through the door, and find uh find me drinking uh at half one in the afternoon, still in my pyjamas. It's true. I was drinking whiskey at half one in the afternoon, sat in my pajamas. Daniel, is it so bad for me to drink whiskey? For me to drink whiskey at half one in the afternoon, sat in my pajamas. Shoulder roll. We all remember that from Skyfall when he gets the McCallum 50 Nevermind. We're also gonna be talking to Colin Dunn, the European whiskey ambassador for Diaggio. From eight or nine times out of ten, the first guy's gonna pipe up with I'm getting vanilla notes. Right. Now, do you wish, like I do, there is some kind of acme lever that you can just pull and a trapdoor will swallow them into a piranha pit below? Because surely everything's got vanilla notes, it's in every cast. Ah, god, I can't wait to get into this podcast. Whiskey, I love whiskey. What do you love Ron?
SPEAKER_01I love poetry. And a glass of scotch.
SPEAKER_05And who doesn't love a good scotch? We're also going to be talking to Greg Dylan, the editor of greatdrams.com. He's gonna be telling me what he feels like when he doesn't have a whiskey in his hand.
SPEAKER_00And to be fair, you don't get the mid-afternoon lull at all, you just get a constant fucking lull. And it's just there's no peak of performance or usefulness or anything.
SPEAKER_05And we all know what that feels like. But we're gonna kick the show off with that interview with Ewan Gunn, the brand ambassador for the Hey Club. Ewan was kind enough to send on a bottle of the Hey Club Man, so we're gonna have a live tasting. This is how it went. It was half one in the afternoon, and I was in my pyjamas. So welcome to the podcast. We have Ewan Gunn on the line. Ewan is the brand ambassador for Hey Club. How are you doing, Ewan?
SPEAKER_04I'm doing great, thank you very much. How are you?
SPEAKER_05I'm very well. Uh I'm very excited about this one. I actually have a bottle of the new Hey Club Club Man in the palm of my hand. It's sitting here without compromise, thanks to the the edges of the bottles, as you've previously described, uh, for the purpose of barmen, so that they can actually uh hold the bottle with some grip as they're serving. Yeah, so Juan, first off, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself, brag a little bit if you will, and then we'll get into the whiskey itself?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, sure. So um I'm obviously the the global ambassador for Haig Club. Um I've worked in the Scotch whiskey industry for all of my adult life, actually, so uh almost 18 years now in various uh sales, marketing, and brah brand ambassadorial roles. Um my job essentially involves uh traveling around the world, talking Scotch whiskey and educating people in Scotch, but also trying to instill a little bit of passion for people around the world and Scotch whiskey as well. Um my attitude is Scotch whiskey is the most exciting and marvellous spirit in the world. And I just kind of enjoy sharing that passion with people I meet.
SPEAKER_05Excellent, great. And so the the Hay Club, tell me a little bit how you got involved with that, please.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'd actually been working with Diageo for um a few years when we started sort of discussing the idea of launching uh a single-grain scotch whiskey at scale around the world, and that was something that I was very, very excited about. Um, I've always been a passionate believer in the quality of single-grained Scotch whiskey. It's um often been described as Scotland's hidden gem. And if you ask anyone that works in the industry, be that distillers or or blenders, they absolutely love the liquid. But for a very, very long time, the only way to enjoy the liquid was as part of a blended Scotch whiskey. So I was really, really excited about the the idea of actually launching one and sharing it with the world. So I was very keen from the get-go to get involved in in this brand. And it's been a phenomenal um roller coaster of a ride since we launched. It's been massively successful across the world. It's been so well received, um, both by industry peers, but also in media, by consumers. Everyone just really likes the liquid and likes the idea behind it.
SPEAKER_05Great. Uh could you tell us a little bit about the history, please? Uh it says on I did a little bit of research, at least five minutes of fastidious research before I joined you. Um so it was established in uh 1824, I believe.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well the um the actual distillery where this uh the Scotch whiskey is made was established there by the Hague family. But they can actually trace their distilling roots back to the early 1600s. So although this is a a new brand, the actual the Hague family were one of the earliest distilling families in Scotland, and Cameron Bridge distillery where Haig Club comes from was actually the the one of the first and the oldest uh single grain distilleries in Scotland. So although it's a new brand, there's actually some lovely history and heritage going on in the background as well.
SPEAKER_05Excellent. So what uh forgive me, what makes it a new brand if it's been going for so long or if there's been so much history? How come it's it's wrapped up and it's new and it's all shiny now?
SPEAKER_04Well, um historically the the Hague family um initially would have started out as uh single malt distillers and they really made their name globally as as blenders. So there's a lot of Hague blends which have been and still are available around the world. Um the Hague Club, the single grain Scotch whiskey is is a brand in its own right. Um so although there is a history and heritage behind it, the single grain brand, the Hague Club brand is is very new.
SPEAKER_05Excellent, brilliant. Thanks for clarifying that up. Um Ewan, I'm just gagging to get this bottle open. Please do, please do. I think even my palms are sweating.
SPEAKER_03I know my tongue is uh salivating, so let's have to Well I I poured myself one before we started the conversation, so I'm ready to share one with you.
SPEAKER_05Brilliant, okay, alright. So uh opening the bottle, pouring my first hit. Um so what notes should I be expecting when I uh when I put my nose to the glass?
SPEAKER_04Well, one of the beautiful things with uh single grain scotch whiskey is it's actually quite a gentle, quite light, uh quite subtle style of Scotch whiskey. So a lot of people are actually find Scotch whiskey quite intimidating. A lot of people are put off by some of that smokiness and power and intensity, which you know I I do enjoy on occasion. But um, single-grain scotch whiskey doesn't have that. It's a much more mellow, more approachable, gentler style of spirits, actually a little bit sweeter in style as well. Now, with Hague Club Clubman, we actually mature the spirit in ex-bourbon barrels, ex-American oak casks. And because of that, we get a lot of that vanilla, butterscotch, and sweet toffee flavors that you found that you tend to find in ex-bourbon casks. So that pairs beautifully with that delicate, gentle style of spirit. So what you're gonna find is actually a uh a Scotch whiskey which is very mellow, very smooth, beautiful balance of flavours and and quite subtle in style.
SPEAKER_05Excellent, great. Well uh if you could uh forgive me for a couple of seconds, I'll take a look at it. Please uh enjoy. I know that doesn't make for great podcasting media sitting back and allowing the the flavours to hit every part of my tongue, but it really does take that long. If you're gonna what I have learned about drinking whiskey, and I haven't really been drinking it for that long but I constantly get reminded that that very first taste is to try and hold it on the tongue for as long as you can. Yeah. Try and let all the flavours and the notes reach every part of the tongue. Uh obviously I'm I'm I'm teaching you how to cook eggs on this one, but this is uh this is pretty much for the uninitiated. So that that first sip for me, instantly the the butterscotch, which I think I think you mentioned is is very pr present. Um it's not I I didn't really get overpowered by anything in terms of normally it's uh there's a lot of alcohol. I mean I know it sounds very obvious, but that when you have that first one of the of the whiskey, it's wow, this is hot, this is uh quite powering. You know you're drinking whiskey, but um I think due to the sweetness and and the vanilla, I didn't really get overwhelmed or overpowered by it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean for me that's really it's a testament to our master distiller and blender. It's a chap called Chris Clark. Um he's he's a genius, he's had over thirty years experience with um Diageo and and Diageo's predecessors, um mostly focused on on single grain scotch whiskey. So that combination of the distillery style and the the wood influence from the maturation, I think he's just got that balance beautiful. Um it's a really perfect combination, and as you say, very smooth, very approachable.
SPEAKER_05Um and is there something that I should expect when I take the second sip? Is there something else that I can recognise, do you think?
SPEAKER_04Um you might find that that vanilla um note becomes a little bit more apparent. Um you'll uh you'll also find, as I said, a little bit more sort of sweet toffee coming through, but it is very, very mellow. It's it's just designed to be enjoyed. It's uh it's a very smooth, very balanced Scotch whiskey.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Oh, that's lovely. That's really good.
SPEAKER_04We're very pleased with it.
SPEAKER_05I literally can't wait for my girlfriend to come back now, go through the door and find uh find me drinking uh at half one in the afternoon, still in my pyjamas.
SPEAKER_04Well one of the I don't know if she does a Scotch drinker or not. Um but I mean one of the one of the sort of uh perfect serves that we're suggesting is I mean this is wonderful liquid as as you're discovering straight up or on the rocks, but actually served with cola it's works really really well too because you find you have the the sort of sweet vanilla and almost coconut notes of the Scotch that just works really nicely with those caramel notes from the cola. So you get something which is very approachable, really enjoyable, and kind of refreshing in taste, and I I I kind of think perfect in its simplicity. It's not an overly elaborate cocktail or anything, but just a nice way to enjoy a long Scotch whiskey drink.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, it's it's definitely very um very sweet. Um is is there any um target audience for the Hey Club man in terms of are you bringing the sweetness through to appeal to a more feminine demographic?
SPEAKER_04Well, I wouldn't say we're sort of focusing exclusively on on male or female consumers. Um the the wonderful thing I think about about single-grained Scotch whiskey in general and hey club in particular is that it it does appeal to people who maybe thought Scotch whiskey wasn't for them. I mean, you ask anyone, they'll tell you Scotch whiskey has been cool since forever. But um a lot of people are maybe a little intimidated by it, and this is designed to kind of open those doors to to new people who want to try and enjoy Scotch whiskey. But it's also designed to be a style of liquid which Scotch whiskey drinkers, existing drinkers, will actually still respect and and enjoy. So it's not really homing in on one specific demographic. I think it's more about creating a a really great liquid which will appeal to people who are new to Scotch but also be respected and enjoyed by people who already drink Scotch whiskey.
SPEAKER_05Excellent, yeah. Um can I ask you how old the whiskey is in terms of the maturation?
SPEAKER_04Well, it's actually a a combination of ages. Um you'll notice there's no age statement on the bottle. Um and for that reason I can't actually tell you the um the range of ages. But there is um some some younger whiskeys in there, and that gives it a little bit of spice, a little bit of vibrancy. And there are older whiskies, all from the same distillery, of course, it is a single-grained Scotch whiskey. But the older whiskies then give it a little bit more richness, a bit more depth, and just kind of round it off quite nicely. And we find that by using that that range of ages, we're actually able to get something with a little bit more subtle smoothness and a little bit more complexity than we would get if we just focused on one specific age. So I I feel we're able to actually create something which is more interesting but also has uh better balance.
SPEAKER_05I should have got my cigars out for this. I mean, is that something that people tell you about the whiskey? It's because it's quite light, um, you know, it's forty percent, it's very sweet, it becomes very moorish, it comes a very easy whiskey to drink.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's it's designed to responsibly, of course. Yeah, of course. But it's it's it's not designed to be a a a challenging, challenging liquid. Um I mean you see so many people getting, you know, to be honest, very pretentious with Scotch whiskey and swirling it for half an hour before they even take a first sip. And this isn't about that. This is about a Scotch whiskey which is there to be enjoyed, um be that with friends on a night out or or whatever, but it's it's designed to be enjoyed.
SPEAKER_05Uh Ewan, I wouldn't actually be doing my job if I didn't ask you about another brand ambassador for the hay club, uh David Beckham. Yeah, of course. Um so uh what is his role within the company and how often do you get to see him?
SPEAKER_04Um so David's a partner in the brand, and he's he's actually a very committed partner. He's he's given a lot of time and and energy to to the brand and absolutely loves loves working with it. He's become quite a fan of Scotch whiskey over the time that I've worked with him. Um I I get to see him probably every couple of months, maybe. Um and sometimes that's just for a you know, maybe a day, sometimes it's for up to a week at a time, depends on what we're doing and where we are in the world. He's um been to every launch market that we've launched into, and obviously when you when you show up with a great liquid, that's wonderful. When you show up with David Beckham as well, that certainly grabs people's attention for sure.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Well I I I I guess he gives great credence to the brand. He's um he looks well, he looks fantastic, doesn't he? Let's let's not be around the bush. He's easy on the eye. Um I guess the only trouble would be that you'd be distracted, you wouldn't actually remember what he was holding because you'd just be dazzled by his well he's he's he's also a very charming individual.
SPEAKER_04So when he when he takes the time to explain to people you know what he loves about about this Scotch whiskey and tell people a little bit about about the flavor style of it, um pe people pay attention, they listen and you know they they take that on board and they go and try it. So we we have a great, great liquid in its own right, but when you combine with the this uh the style and charisma that that David brings, that's it's a beautiful combination, I think.
SPEAKER_05Excellent. Um lastly, Ewan, thanks for um thanks for joining us today, but I just wanted to mention that I was reading one of the the Bond books earlier on, and I found the word Hague in one of uh On Her Majesty's Secret Service. So if I can just read you a small passage from the from the Bond book. It said uh Bond poured himself a stiff bourbon and mortar with plenty of ice. He went and sat down across the desk from Bond, reached for the Hague, and said, looking directly in his eye, I learned you are a good friend in the Dogemy in Paris. He is paid to give me such information when I want it. So it looks like there is some heritage there for the Hague. That is instilled in the Bond books.
SPEAKER_04That wasn't one I was aware of, but I'm delighted to hear it. Um I mean Mr. Von's always been described as a a man of style and good taste, so yeah, I'm willing to take that one.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well on Imagine Secret Service, uh one of the earlier chapters if you if you happen to be reading. I will look it up, thank you. Excellent. Well, I'm gonna enjoy probably about another two or three of these. Please do. Um thanks again for uh for joining us, Ewan. Um so what's next for the the hay club?
SPEAKER_04Um next will be um I imagine quite a bit of work behind um raising awareness of hay club clubmen across the UK markets and then looking at which markets we're going to launch into across the rest of the world. I think it's gonna be uh an exciting and probably very busy year ahead for for myself and for Mr. Beckham.
SPEAKER_05Excellent, William. I look forward to that. Uh I guess will there be any more launches at the Marble Arch?
SPEAKER_04Uh we've actually returned the um Wellington Arch just uh in London where we did the Hague Club London eventually.
SPEAKER_05I meant Wellington Arch, sorry. Yeah, that's all right. Two hits have already gone to my head.
SPEAKER_04We've actually returned it to exactly the same as it looked prior to us taking it over. So still an an absolutely beautiful monument, but uh the interior is uh a little bit different to how you'd remember it.
SPEAKER_05Well, I'll look I'll look at my inbox with uh great longing hope to see if there'll be an invite to that. Definitely do, definitely do. We'll keep you posted. Thank you very much. Cheers for joining us and uh thanks for sending the bottle through. Take care, mate. My pleasure, thank you. Thanks, bye bye. Bye. Thank you, you and Gun. I recommend drinking Hey Club Man at half one in the afternoon, responsibly, of course. It just makes you feel great, makes you feel like a man. How does it make you feel, Tom? How does it make you feel when you drink whiskey?
SPEAKER_01It's universal, man. It is evolutional, it is anthropological, it is biological It is animal.
SPEAKER_05We are Thank you for that, Tom. Although we should say at this point that women, they enjoy whiskey as well. This is the nineties after all. But moving swiftly on, we're gonna talk to Colin Dunn now, the European Whiskey Ambassador for Diaggio. Okay, so um welcome to the podcast. Colin Dunn, the European Whiskey Ambassador for Diaggio. How are you doing, Colin?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm good, thank you. Fantastic, actually. Beautiful day in London, sun shining. Um looking forward to my first whiskey in about 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_05Excellent. Okay, do you have a rule that you don't drink whiskey before 12 like I do?
SPEAKER_02I try, I try.
SPEAKER_05But then after the watershed, it's it's the gloves are off.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Excellent, okay. Yeah, I think so. So um, Colin, just uh a little bit about Johnny Walker, please, um, as uh as you're the more expert. Uh would you out of all the labels for Johnny Walker that has produced over the years, do you have a favourite? Um and why?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, when it comes down to Johnny Walker, obviously people see the different colours out there. There's the red label and green label and black label. And um, when I got to blue label, which is my favourite, and I didn't really get it. I couldn't understand why the this pinnacle of the blender's art, Johnny Walker Blue Label coming in at about £160. I don't get it. I need to understand why why is this so captivating? And I met the master blender, Jim Beveridge, and he sat me down and we did a tasting together of it, and I suddenly realized that um just by giving a little bit of time with the nose, the palate, and the aftertaste, almost like a good film or a good book, you know, you're looking at uh you're looking at the the liquid having structure and balance, and all of a sudden, just by taking the this liquid and allowing it in contact with your mouth for 10, 15, 20 seconds, it kept changing. And I suddenly realized, you know what, this is a bit special here. And then Jim Jim told me that he's he he takes forever and a day choosing the right casks to go into this blend. He reckons roughly about one in 10,000 casks he chooses, he puts aside, matures it, and blends it with other single malt whiskies that that's whiskies from a single distillery to create a new flavor profile. So blue label is my go-to if I'm celebrating or if I'm with friends, and I drink it in many different ways, whether it's neat with water, with ice, even with chocolate or blue cheese. And recently um I've discovered in the hands of the right mixologist, uh blue label and a cocktail has been an absolute phenomenon for me.
SPEAKER_05I was actually just going to lead on to that. What is your favourite Johnny Walker blue label cocktail?
SPEAKER_02Well, um, one of the biggest cocktail competitions in the world, it's a competition called World Class. It's international, people from over 130 different countries enter every year. And last year I was privileged to uh taste a blue label cocktail, um, which had a funky name uh called Hitting Lock Bottom. And do you see what he did there? Wasn't that clever?
SPEAKER_05Genius.
SPEAKER_02This particular gentleman, a guy called Ali Reynolds, um, he put together Johnny Walker Blue Label, he then proceeded to add some cider, some bodimos syrup, uh, a dash of Fernabranca, um, mixed it all up in the mixing glass, poured shaped and poured it into uh uh a glass and added some uh Don Runard champagne. I'd never realised. How the flavour of whiskey could um metamorphosi into something new. It was like whiskey in HD for the first time. So there are bartenders out there in places like in London in particular and Edinburgh and Manchester who have realized that blue label in a cocktail can be done in the hands of the right individual.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's that sounds dreamy. I'm I'm already salivating and it's not even twelve o'clock. Uh oh, I should also mention that as well as not drinking before twelve o'clock, I do have a slight loophole in that law. Do you that if I'm on an airplane, if I'm basically above like two thousand feet above sea level, then again, it's like the postal code thing. You know, you can you can you can allow certain things through and I'm allowed to have a drink then.
SPEAKER_02Excellent. I'll take a look at that in the future.
SPEAKER_05Well, that just means I try and catch early flights whenever possible. So um do you have a favourite cocktail that you drink exclusively on the plane and nowhere else?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, mine is normally quite simple. I want something that's cool, I want something that's refreshing, I want something that's long, and for that I go to my go-to distillery, which is Talisca. Um failing that, often on a plane, it's um black label, and black label with ginger ale is simple, easy to put together for the beginner, um, but it's incredibly refreshing. If you're looking at Talisca uh mixed with soda water, the soda water with the bubbles creates endorphines, makes you feel good, um, long and refreshing. And I think highballs in particular is are going to be really popular in the next year or two. So, yeah, long drink, Tavasca, Johnny Walker black label, either would do, is my go-to choice of a simple, easy-to-make cocktail that's refreshing and easy on the palate and easy on the pocket.
SPEAKER_05Nice. And highball as well. I mean, that's just a great name for a cocktail, isn't it? Isn't it? I've often thought Johnny Walker, I mean, obviously, not purely down to it, but the name Johnny Walker is such a great name as well. I mean, it's just uh it's a much it's it rolls off the tongue. Uh and how much do you think the popularity is down to the name of the thing?
SPEAKER_02I definitely think almost by default it's it's had an impact because it is two words that you can say in any language and everybody knows what you're talking about. It's a bit like saying Usain Bolt or something, you know, automatically you know what it is, and it's got such a good reputation. I'd heard about Johnny Walker way, way, way before I got into whiskey. And every time I spoke to a bartender or a sommelier or somebody in the drinks industry, if if you've got a decision to make on whiskey, just by saying those two words, yeah.
SPEAKER_05It feels sexy, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I'm definitely with you on that. Um so, Colin, a little bit about you, please, mate. What what is your day-to-day runnings? I mean, how do you get to have uh a healthy lifestyle when you have to drink so much whiskey? Responsibly, of course.
SPEAKER_02I'm on the floor here. Now, it's yeah, well, basically, I've got I've got a fantastic job simply because I'm working with a company that's got 28 single malt whiskey distilleries, which means it's almost like being a kid in a sweet shop. I've got so many different aromas and flavours to play with, and um you've probably noticed in the last couple of years, people have really got into taste. Um, you only got to look at television or social media with different programs like Sunday brunch, etc. People are really interested in flavors, and with whiskey, it's really sort of um renovated the category where it used to be a drink considered to be for the more mature person, but now the younger generation are really clued into it. So this means that I'm spending a lot of time with uh bartenders and someliers talking about the brands, talking about the category, explaining the difference between um, in Johnny Walker's case, black, red, green, gold, platinum, tasting them together, using food pairings to bring it to life, working with restaurants, um, and showing people that whiskey has been able to move into the 21st century with ease and has become front of mind for a lot of people, whether they're customers or whether they're bartenders who are serving about it. Because let's be fair about it, you walk into a good bar these days, you need the bartender to be able to excite you, and this is why it's so important for what we do as ambassadors to try to energize, educate, and entertain the people that we're talking to, or actually passing the mantle on to them to give to their customers.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Uh what about personally, your your fitness regime there? I mean, if you have like I imagine if you have three highballs before it's two o'clock in the afternoon, you're not going to be inspired to get on the elliptical machine at three o'clock. So do you have to kind of cram all the uh the press-ups and the cardio in before lunch? Uh how does it work?
SPEAKER_02I have to say, it's the hardest job in the world where all of those things you've just mentioned and more have to be done as early as possible because as the day unfolds, often I don't really start work until two o'clock in the afternoon, and often I don't finish until 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night, because this is when you know the uh the industry really comes alive. So, yeah, it's um around about 30 minutes every two days to um get the cardiovascular moving and the resistance, so hopefully I can slip into that that suit and look reasonably um smart for the day ahead.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, that sounds that sounds like the ticket.
SPEAKER_02That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, okay. No one's there to actually uh counter counteract that, so uh I'll take your word for it. Um moving on. What are the uh I I've been thinking about what the common misconceptions are about blended whiskey. Um many people kind of give me the argument of single malts, etc. Uh, why was Johnny Walker at the beginning so intent on blending the whiskey and blending the single malts?
SPEAKER_02Well, if you go back in time, and I'll keep this really brief and succinct and to the point, because it's a it's an amazing story, really, when you look into it. Here you have a guy uh back in the 1820s who's bringing in tea uh from India, he's bringing in carpets, he's bringing in silks, he's blending tea in the back room of his shop, and he suddenly realizes he's in the home of Aquavita, Odavie, Ushkiva, Ushki whiskey, the water of life. So he starts buying in barrels of whiskey, and they've all got different flavour profiles. So he starts to blend. So he has, you know, a light and fruity blend, a smoky blend, a rich blend, and customers started to come into his shop and say, Um, I'd like I'd like some whiskey to take home, and he'd say, Well, what kind of flavor would you like? And hey, presto, he would then create a flavor for his private customers based on their their needs and their wants. So if you if you look at individually single malts, which is whiskey from a single distillery, they have their own kind of like DNA, which is not, dare I say, everybody's cup of tea. It has its people have have particular favourites. So in the winter time, for example, you might have a smoky whiskey like Lagervillein or Kalila. Um, but if you're if you're looking at something that's going to encompass all of these flavors into a balanced taste, blends are what is basically what's keep what keeps the industry alive. Around about 90% of the whiskey drunk in the world are blends. And some people wrongly have said that malts are better than blends. But I have a lovely little thing that I do where I put blue label, or in fact, green label, um, into blind tastings with the uh so-called whiskey aficionados, and I ask them to can you tell me which is the blend here? And you know what? They invariably, 99 times out of 100, they choose the blend as a single malt. And the whole idea is a malt is not better than a blend, it's different. It's it's really a bit like saying your football team, so let's just use it as an example. You say Barcelona is better than Real Madrid. It's public perception, it's down to the individual. Whiskey these days is playing in so many fields that blends is a great way to start to appreciate taste and flavour. So I definitely to put it to bed, my last words on it, blends are every bit as good as single malts, and that it's down to you or your individual palate to make your own decision. Nobody tells me what's good and what's not good. I'll make up my own decision. And blends can definitely do that. In fact, I I'd so wish that you were in this room right now and I'd show you exactly what I meant by by bringing um a Johnny Walker blend alive to your palate.
SPEAKER_05Oh that well that sounds amazing. I wish I could just teleport there and uh get a a cut glass tumbler in my hand and start drinking whiskey right now. Um that's uh that's that's pretty educational. I mean, I'm I I'm kind of I wouldn't say new to whiskey or the the the laws of whiskey, as it were, but I'm just kind of trying to find my way through the muddle of what is conjecture, what is opinion, and what is fact when it comes to the blends. And like you say, the soon the more people you talk to and the more aficionados that throw their weight around, sometimes the more convoluted it gets for me. So I think you're right.
SPEAKER_02I understand that. I mean, what I'd say what I'd say to you is as an example, for somebody who's never tasted whiskey or is trying to get through that maze of trying to understand what whiskey's all about, if if we were together right now and and you said to me, sum up whiskey you know in 30 seconds, I would have or would ask you to taste Johnny Walker Blue Label with me, neat with water, with ice, with water and ice. I'd bring along a couple of food pairings, some some truffles, I might even bring along some um things like oysters or shellfish, um, some cheese, and then serve you in a cup. So you would in a cocktail so that you would be able to sample a singular blended whiskey in about seven or eight, nine different ways, and then you could decide yourself then, not me, your palate could decide then which one or or ones that actually turned you on. Because ultimately, if you take away the social media side of it, the words, etc., it'll be your palate that will make the decision for you. And I I that's part of what I do really is to try to turn people on to experience taste in a in a new way in 2016.
SPEAKER_05Awesome. Well, that sounds like a wonderful date.
SPEAKER_02Wrong, wrong.
SPEAKER_05I'd be up for that. Um lastly, Colin, um, I have this thing when I go to whiskey tastings, I just want to get your opinion on this. Yeah, when I speak to the the brand ambassadors and the people and the mixologists, etc., and they then throw it to the room, they say, right, smell it, drink it, and what are you getting? Nine pro eight or nine times out of ten, the first guy's gonna pipe up with I'm getting vanilla notes. Right? Now, do you wish, like I do, there's some kind of acme lever that you can just pull and a trapdoor will swallow them into a piranha pit below? Because surely everything's got vanilla notes, it's in every cask.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, strangely enough, um, it's not in every cask, it is there sometimes, um, often more more often than not, admittedly. But do you know what? I try not to put the person who's nosing or tasting into a position of saying, What do you get? I'm actually I'd actually be doing the tasting with you, and I would have some uh quite possibly some aroma jars to be able to give you to to try to get you on that journey because these days, particularly uh in a city, there's so many different nationalities that are sampling whiskey for the first time, and I want them to be able to understand that the aroma that they're getting works to get their olfactory glands working. I don't want to make it too heavy here. You you can you can use small or big words to describe whiskey. I'd rather that you just allow the whiskey maybe 10 seconds on your palate and for you to use words that you feel comfortable with. There's no such thing as the perfect tasting note, but there is such a thing as you being woken up to the joys of tasting whiskey in different ways. And I probably wouldn't give it to you neat to start with. I'd I'd probably build it up so that you taste it acoustic and then eventually you taste it electric. Where I'd show you the different dimensions of what whiskey's all about. Forget all the big words, put a smile on your face, keep your tongue firmly in your cheek, and um and use your nose and mouth to be able to make up a description that you feel comfortable with.
SPEAKER_05Oh god, Colin, I'm so thirsty now. I've literally got to go to the drinks cabinet and pour something. Listen, um, thanks for taking the time out to speak to me. Uh if you want to find out more about Johnny Walker, obviously go to the website johnnywalker.com. Uh is there anything big coming up, any any huge releases that people should look out for?
SPEAKER_02Well, obviously we're coming up to Christmas. Dare I say that word? Damn it, I've said it for the first time. Um I tend to if I'm if I'm actually looking at certain custom or friends, should I say, um, that I'm I'm not sure what to get them, um, I tend to go for a a gift pack, a small Johnny Walker Blue gift pack, and I'll put in uh just a few little hints. And in fact, often I'll say, Here's some Johnny Walker Blue for Christmas. Hope you enjoy it. Please invite me along and we can taste it together. The perfect gift for that Yule tide occasion.
SPEAKER_05Sounds sounds dreamy. Excellent. All right, Colin, I'll let you go. I'll let you go now. You too, take care, mate. See you soon. Thanks, mate. Bye bye. Thank you for that, Colin. And now for a word from our sponsor over at Sunturi Whiskey.
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SPEAKER_05Thank you for that, Bill. And we're gonna finish off now with that interview with Greg Dillon, the editor of greatrams.com. On the podcast now we have Greg, the editor at thegreatrams.com. How are you doing, Greg? I'm doing very well, thank you, sir. And yourself? Oh, um I'm splendid. I'm absolutely splendid, and that's the truth. Um Greg, tell me uh please, just a little bit about the website, how it started, and what got you into it into whiskey, as it were.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I've been I guess I've been collecting whiskey for about 11 or 12 years now. Um and started actually when my father passed away, I just and he is a big whiskey fan, but only liked uh what we affectionately referred to in the house as well, poor whiskey. He uh he never branched out into single molds or interesting stuff. So uh took the baton then and just ran with it really and thought there must be something a bit more interesting than generic blends X, Y, and Z. And yeah, then eventually started consulting with whiskey brands on building their brands or fixing their brands or whatever, and uh from a branding and strategy point of view, and thought, why am I talking about this just to clients and not to the wider world? Let's see if anyone wants to listen and read. And Great Drams was born and has gone from strength to strength ever since.
SPEAKER_05Excellent. So, what does your collection of whiskey look like now at home?
SPEAKER_00Um I've unfortunately I've actually shipped about half of it to storage just for a mixture of uh safety, but also for um space.
SPEAKER_05Uh just in case we have that nuclear fallout, you'll always have whiskey to go to somewhere in the cellar.
SPEAKER_00I know, 300 miles away, there is an absolutely rocking bar and it was fully stocked.
SPEAKER_05Excellent.
SPEAKER_00And so yeah, at home now you've got the we've got a whiskey cupboard or cabinet, the main one with all the kind of live interesting whiskeys in it, and then a couple of cupboards and then a bar as well, which is somewhere between whiskey and wine.
SPEAKER_05Well, um Greg, do you mind just telling us a few things for the layman's what what things like peted whiskey is, for example, if we can get going there. Uh how is a w uh a whiskey smoky sort of flavoured and tasting?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So uh essentially whiskey is uh the peted whiskey is actually really quite polarizing. Um LeFroy being the absolute classic of that. Um and the Lefroig 10, especially being one that is kind of typically referred to as the marmite whiskey of if whiskey drinkers like pet or not. And strangely enough, was the whiskey that got me into whiskey way back when and convinced me it's a good idea that if I can overcome this flavour profile, I should be alright trying all the others. It's clean saline from here. Absolutely. So the the difference is in uh the process, and so the the barley or the kind of the input at the beginning of the um process is smoked uh through using peat uh versus the unmalted barley and unpeated barley that goes through into the mashing and fermentation process.
SPEAKER_05Right, so it's there at the beginning almost at the nerve. It's already got that smoky um character before it goes into uh the process.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Uh so once the spirit comes out, and you can actually tell uh quite wonderfully from New Make Spirit, which typically has very little character, um so instead, it's you can tell the peated ones. Uh so Highland Park, for example, I was I've been doing a bit of a study into New Make at the minute, and uh the Highland Park versus say the McAllen uh New Make is a polar difference between them. They are so, so uh contrasted by that peat note that comes through uh the Highland Park, which is very sweet, like that heather honey uh type peat to it and aroma that uh associated with it, that then once matured it will bring through all those wonderful notes that we expect from a peted whiskey.
SPEAKER_05Do you think I mean I've I've been on a few trips now and I've found that the petered whiskey is actually probably the most divisive amongst people that like a good whiskey but won't ever go into peted, and then the people that know the peted whiskeys are almost the elitest amongst the whiskey lovers. Um how do you find it? How do you find the range?
SPEAKER_00Um I find people are increasingly I think for for instance, petered whiskey is becoming a lot more flexible and fun now. So um before you wouldn't really use them in too many cocktails. Um, but now I mean our our house there for what it's worth the the few people that come and visit me um is uh like an old-fashioned made with either a Leforic 10 or an Ardbeck 10. Um and you're seeing more and more smoked cocktails and smoky whiskies being used in cocktails, and I think that's breaking down those barriers. People are seeing that to be a smoky whiskey or a heavily peated whiskey isn't actually a scary thing unless you're you know looking at the optimum, which is effectively like chewing on a peat brick the first time you have it.
SPEAKER_05The brooklading um optimum.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. Um but for your classic uh peated whiskies, you you know, there are degrees of peat, they can be incredibly precise. So it's what it's called a PPM, uh so parts per million of uh uh phenols uh that actually create this flavor profile. And so on Isla, for example, which is you know the home of Peter whiskey, it ranges from Baumore, which has an incredibly low, potentially single-digit uh PPM, to Lafroy, which is roughly 24, 26, um, to Aardbeg, which is 55, and then uh you go up to the Optimor from Brooklady, which I think one of theirs is clocked in at 258 or 256 PPM, which is a bonkers. And there's rumors that they've gone even higher than that, but uh nothing's been officially said as yet. But they can be so precise in what they get. Like if you're in a space side whiskey uh distillery, for example, like Glenn Ruffin, um it's one PPM and it's just it's still classes unpeded because it's so low, but it's just to give it. A bit of character.
SPEAKER_05Uh for people that don't really drink whiskey, I mean I got into drinking whiskey quite late. Uh and it took a a trip to the distillery actually on the islay as well. Um how would you introduce people to whiskey and say, look, you know, this isn't going to blow your head off. If you learn how to drink it right and introduce your palate to the actual character of the whiskey, uh is there a way, is there kind of like an initiation almost that you do to introduce people to a whiskey?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I do. I kind of and I do it within beginner whiskey tastings that I host every now and then, but I always start with uh an Ockintoshen. So it's from the lowlands and it's pretty light, triple distilled, and what you get there is a character that's not too dissimilar to Irish whiskey. Um, but it's almost Irish whiskey in a Scotch jacket, so to speak. It's um quite soft, really smooth, still full of character, but it's zero burn, and it just allows you to be able to actually understand what good whiskey is without getting into the ridiculously potent profiles of other regions. Uh, and then would hit normally Glen Kinchy as well, potentially, um, and various others in the lowlands and up to about Edinburgh and kind of uh spaceide is the one you graduate into after that, really.
SPEAKER_05Excellent. Okay, so that's like the gateway drug for whiskey, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well that's how I do it. I mean, there's people do it in fairly you can either or you start Octomar and work your way down uh and see what happens, but I wouldn't advise that.
SPEAKER_05Cool. Okay, Greg. Well it cheers me. Thanks for jumping on. Um I hear that you're you're also doing a book, is that right, or you're in the middle of getting something published?
SPEAKER_00Yes, so I've just finished a book on the whiskey brands. Uh so it travels through a kind of a nice conversational travel through uh 19 or so whiskey brands and how they've contributed to whiskey being what it is now uh uh over the last 200 years, um, through distillery stories, first hand kind of experiences, and tales of way back when. Uh and so that's with publishers at the minute, and uh hopefully should be somewhere at least on one shelf somewhere uh by the beginning of next year, maybe middle, who knows?
SPEAKER_05Excellent. Okay, well I look forward to seeing that. And if you want to check out Greg's work, his fine work, it's over at greatdrams.com and follow him on Twitter, it's at great drams, is that right? It is indeed. Excellent. Brilliant, Greg. Oh, uh lastly, Greg, your your favourite plane drink, the drink you only have on a plane when you want to feel sexy.
SPEAKER_00Uh I nearly exclusively drink uh double gin and tonics on planes.
SPEAKER_05That's right.
SPEAKER_00And always ask for two.
SPEAKER_05Nice, but at the same time. Absolutely. Okay, I guess you can't get a quadruple in a glass. That's that would just be gluttony. Well, brilliant. Uh cheers, Greg. I'll check in with you soon, mate. Brilliant. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you for that, Greg, and thank you, everyone that joined the podcast this week. Thank you, you and Gunn. Thank you, Colin Dunn, and thank you all for listening. If you want to head over to the Menswear Style site, this is where all the blogs and the fashion and the car descriptions and all the tips and advice and the grooming, everything happens over there. It's menswearstyle.co.uk. On Instagram, it's at menswear style, same on the Twitter. So do check us out. I hope you enjoyed the episode. I'll see you again in a couple of weeks. In the meantime.
SPEAKER_06Do you have anything to drink?
SPEAKER_01I believe the kegs are upstairs.
SPEAKER_06That is what the creans drink. I'm talking about alcohol, liquor, the good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Alright. I got some scotch.
SPEAKER_05Single malt?
SPEAKER_01Aged 18 years. The way I like it.
SPEAKER_06Why don't you go grab a glass from the bar? Think I should. Hello me.
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