Menswear Style Podcast
The Menswear Style Podcast is a leading men’s fashion and menswear podcast exploring men’s style, clothing, grooming, lifestyle and the business behind some of the world’s most exciting fashion brands. Hosted by Peter Brooker, each episode features conversations with menswear designers, fashion entrepreneurs, innovative brand founders and industry experts from across the global fashion and apparel industry. Discover the stories behind established and emerging clothing brands, from the first idea and challenges of launching a fashion start-up to building a successful international business. Guests share their experiences and insights across fashion design, sustainability, manufacturing, marketing, branding, eCommerce, retail, social media and business growth. Whether you’re interested in men’s fashion and style, discovering new menswear brands, starting your own clothing label, or learning how successful fashion businesses are built, the Menswear Style Podcast takes you behind the scenes of the modern menswear industry. New conversations with the people shaping the future of menswear, men’s style and fashion.
Menswear Style Podcast
Samuel Hickey of Murdock London, Stefan Avanzato of Dolce & Gabbana Barbersh & Joshua Moore of The Beard Mag
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This week we discuss men's grooming, hairstyles and beards with four special guests: Samuel Hickey, Head Barber at Murdock London, Stefan Avanzato, Master Barber at Dolce & Gabbana, Model and Actor Rob Jones and the Founder of The Beard Mag, Joshua Moore.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Menswear Style Podcast with me, your host, Pete Brooker. And on this week's episode, we're going to be talking beards, hairstyles, grooming, and beards. We're going to be talking to a couple of barbers, one being Stefan Avanzatu, the master barber at Dolce and Cabana's flagship store in New Bond Street. He tells me what it's like being a barber that has an allergy to hair dye. That must be like a like a porn star being allergic to boobs. God felt you a really bad hand on that one.
SPEAKER_08I've always used Gardner being having hay fever, but I like that one. I'm not changing it to that one.
SPEAKER_10Looking forward to that one. We also talk about the the seven-week itch period for growing the beard, and maybe Chewy will know. Chewy, how do you get past that itch phase when you're growing a beard? Good job, I brought my stenopad, writing that tip down. Nice one, Chewy. We're also going to be talking to fashion insider Rob Jones about his girlfriend's beard.
SPEAKER_09So what about uh your woman? Uh does she kind of give a little bit of a little bit more?
SPEAKER_05She doesn't have a beard now. She shaved it all off.
SPEAKER_10We liked that one, didn't we, Chewie? We're also going to be talking to Samuel Hickey, the senior barber at Murdoch London. We're gonna tap into why Liam Neeson hasn't dyed his hair yet. Liam Neeson, I saw when he was in a film called The Grey. I'm like, this dude's like in his mid-sixties and he's not got one grey hair on his head, ironically, in a film called The Grey. Very passionate about Liam Neeson's hair there. Say, Chewy, you and Liam must have spent time together being in the Star Wars franchise. Have you ever seen him colour his hair or dye his temples at all? We're nine films in and still no subtitles for Chewie. Just saying. We're also going to speak to Josh, the founder of The Beard Mag. Admittedly, it took a couple of takes to get going. On the podcast now we have Josh, the founder of the Beard Mag magazine. Uh fuck, I'll start that again. The Beard Mag magazine. That sounds terrible, doesn't it? Um. Right, on the podcast now we have we're welcome welcoming Josh. Fuck I am a consummate professional. I'm a consummate professional. That interview coming up shortly. But first we're going to talk to Samuel Hickey. Samuel is a senior barber at Murdoch London, and Murdoch London provide classic barber services such as traditional wet shaves, full beard reshapes, and restyle haircuts inspired by the grand heritage of St. James barber shops, but tailored for modern, self-conscious men. On the line now we have Samuel Hickey. Samuel's a senior barber at Murdoch London, which is the grooming specialists for London. How are you doing, Samuel?
SPEAKER_04I'm all good, thank you. So how are you doing?
SPEAKER_10Oh, I'm okay, thanks. Yeah, I'm still in my pyjamas, actually. So it's always the best way. This podcasting Larkin working from home has not um improved my lifestyle in any way, shape, or form. But um but yeah, uh, thanks for taking the time out. I know you're on your break down there. So um just firstly, can you just tell us a little bit about the brand um Murdoch London? So you've got eight outlets now, I've heard seven in London, one in Paris, and that's taken no time at all, really, hasn't it?
SPEAKER_04That's no, I mean, like we've been around uh for about ten years now, and so starting off with our first branch on Old Street in Shoreditch, um obviously Murdoch being like a quintessentially English brand and British brands focusing on the traditional uh barbering aspects from St. James. Um incorporating that with products mainly sourced in the UK using like British ingredients, um, just allows us to create a nice environment for guys to come and get grooming. Um so obviously ranging from haircuts, traditional wet shaves, and obviously focusing a lot more on beards as well over the last couple of years with the resurgence of the beards. Um, yeah, it's just a nice environment for guys to come to and obviously feel pampers and get groomed, which a lot of guys did neglect for quite a while.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. Why do you think there's been such a sea change for guys to get cosmet cosmetically uh better looking, is a way of saying it, I suppose.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I would probably say that you look at guys throughout the years, um they've gone from like ruggedness to like what's look nice and sharpen, like films such as like the Great Gatsby, TV programs like Mad Men, um everyone wants to look a little bit sharper. And I think economically as well, guys are starting to take a lot more care of themselves, they've had a little bit more money left in the back pocket, um, and obviously they're taking more of an interest in looking on themselves, being well groomed, well presented, so you know like a nice sharp parting, a good cologne, good skincare regime. Um guys just kind of want to look after themselves a bit more. It's not just for women anymore, it's a lot, it's a lot more like a unisex general that men and women both want to take care of themselves.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I wonder if guys are starting to realise that it's not just a good sense of humour that can get you laid.
SPEAKER_04That is true. There's nothing worse than it can be really funny if you've got a bad haircut, same as if you've got bad shoes, it's never gonna go well.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, exactly. You d you need a few more um arrows in your quiver, so to speak.
SPEAKER_04Oh no, for sure.
SPEAKER_10Um so do you remember your very first haircut?
SPEAKER_04My first haircut.
SPEAKER_10Sorry to cut someone else's hair.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, for sure. No, I do. I mean, obviously I did I qualified um about five, six years ago. I trained up in London, did my apprenticeship back in Chelms at Essex, where I'm from. And obviously, after joining Murdoch, I was obviously given my first client, I was like obviously inevitably was gonna be nervous because I'd never had like a paying client before. Um, but it went absolutely a-okay. There was no problems, no hitches, but everything I'd learnt into practice, and it you know, I've breezed through it. It was just like it was a lot more enjoyable than I expected. Obviously, there is gonna be like nervous aspects of it because it's something I hadn't done before in regards to having like a paying client, uh, but you pick things up as you go along. Training only teaches you so much. It's about how you put it into practice when you are doing it for a client, and then obviously going from there, it was a really really enjoyable experience. I still actually cut that client's hair now. So um my first haircut, and obviously keeping him as a client, that's um you know, it was a good confidence booster.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that's great. Well, um, it must have been a good haircut for that dude. I'd like to think so. Um so what trends are coming in now that you're noticing more? What are the guys asking for more than anything else at the moment?
SPEAKER_04Still, you can still the um the standard guys want a nice short backhand sides. A lot of guys are asking for like a skin phase, so going really, really tight from the nape upwards, and obviously going a lot higher through the um the simple to bone area, so quite tight through the back. Uh, you do see guys, like I said, obviously still going for the passing, keep it nice and sharp, nice and refined, like I said, going like before the more the gatsby, the madmen. Um you do also have a lot of guys going quite long on top as well, not just slick back, but again, like kind of a bit more like a disconnected peaky blinders haircut because that again has kicked off over the last couple of years, and guys like you know that kind of aspect of it can be nice and sharp, nice and short through the back and sides, but they've got a little bit more to play with on top. I'm seeing it. It gives them a bit more freedom. Yeah, it's one of those things. I've even gone for the same. So it's uh it's you know, practice what you preach if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_10Do you think also it's I've only just thought of this, but it's quite a good move for dudes that are going grey, because typically you'll go grey round the temples first. So if you shave if you shave all of it off round the temples and just kind of have it long and lapse and slick back, then it it disguises it, kind of massages over there a little.
SPEAKER_04I know, I I completely understand what you mean, because I'm going grey as well. My dad, for example, uh had a good full head of brown hair at the age of 23, fully grey by 25. So I don't think he had the options to go nice and short and straight through the temples because it kind of went overnight, if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_11Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But no, I kind of take with my own personal haircut, it's always really, really short through the back and sides and through the temples. Um, not that I'm embarrassed with grey hair, it is really, really fashionable. You've got guys like George Clooney who can rock a good head of grey hair.
SPEAKER_10Phillips Gofield.
SPEAKER_04I'd say so as well. Philip Schofield. However, I'd rather be George Clooney than Philip Schofield if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I mean it's it's a little bit of a weird one because I think with grey hair, it's the timing of when you can allow grey hair to come in. So, like, for example, if you're in your 70s and you're Paul McCartney and you've dyed all of your hair a great uh orange tan, you know, it's just gonna be weird. You need to have you need to let the temples go at least.
SPEAKER_04I would say so. I mean, I'm I'm of the opinion with guys that are going grey, never disguise it, just go with it and keep it natural. Uh if you start dyeing your hair, it can lead to like you've got to spend time dyeing your hair, and then often you get it cut, the grey's gonna come back through, and you've got to dye it again. It doesn't, it's not cost effective. I mean, unless it is a massive problem, um, there's no need to dye it. If you're in that embarrassed of it, obviously you can get a haircut to suit. Um, obviously, there's the upkeep is the main thing. I would personally not advise dyeing hair. I mean, for men, there's no need to dye it, there's nothing to be embarrassed about. It's only gonna go grey.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So not everyone goes grey. Guys can have like my gr my grandfather, for example, is 70, not got one grey hair on his head.
SPEAKER_10I wonder if it's just people that are in uh the media's eye, you know, actors, artists, for example, like Liam Neeson. I saw when he was in a film called The Grey. I'm like, this dude's like in his mid-sixties and he's not got one grey hair on his head, ironically, in a film called The Grey. I mean, at least let the temples go, Liam. Jesus.
SPEAKER_04I know, he didn't want to play ball, did he? He wasn't having it. I think he probably dyed it for the film.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, and every other film since I think. Um, so is there a trick to getting the best out of a barber if you're a customer, um, other than the carrot of a nice tip? Is there is there ways of getting a better haircut out of you?
SPEAKER_04I would say come in to the shop knowing what you want. Uh there's no point booking in a haircut or booking an appointment, coming in and being completely carte blanche because there's only a certain amount of information you can extract from someone who doesn't know what they want. Um you can bring pictures in, bring in magazine articles, bring in film references, um of what haircut you like, and obviously not everyone's if you bring in a picture of David Beckham, you aren't gonna look like David Beckham when you walk out. Yeah. Um just because you know you haven't got the golden balls of David Beckham, so to speak. Um however, you can style your hair similarly. Um so, for example, dependent on the hairstyle you're after, and dependent on how your hair is, I mean you've got to look at the texture of the hair, how the hair's gonna sit, the shape of your head, the shape of your face, and obviously you can take that as a base and work that around to suit. And there's nothing worse than being like, Yeah, I can definitely do this haircut for you, and it not coming out exactly as the picture, because obviously you're gonna have a disappointed client who's not gonna be happy with the outcome. It's about tailoring it to suit the individual. There's nothing worse than promising and not delivering because that's gonna end up with an unhappy client and they're not gonna be happy with their haircut, the overall finish, and their experience, and they probably wouldn't return to the salon or the barber shop for repeat, repeat haircut. So it's about being honest and doing what you know is gonna suit the client. It's also about the long it's also about the longevity, talking about how they're gonna maintain their hair. Like, do they have a grooming regime? Do they wash their hair every day? Do they use the hair dryer, do they use a product, do they brush it? Um those kind of aspects need to be taken into account when you have a consultation. The main part of any haircut is the consultation. Um, because if you don't know what you're doing and you start just cutting hair off, nothing's ever gonna be done properly. So it's all about making sure you confirm, even double confirming with pictures, uh photos, um I said references from films. And once you know what you're doing, once you've got like a set, this is what we're gonna do, this is how we're gonna do it, this is how we'll style it, this is the products we're gonna use, you go from there and you're gonna have a the task's gonna be a lot easier, and the client then knows what you're capable of doing as well. There's nothing worse than coming into a barber shop for the first time, not knowing your barber, not the barber doesn't know you, it's never seen never seen your hair before, doesn't know how the hair's gonna grow out. So it's about just taking the time, booking in the right appointment as well. Don't try and save five pounds by booking a cheaper option just because you know it's a fiver.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You get what you kind of pay for in regards to that.
SPEAKER_10Oh, that's interesting. It's also about managing expectations, I guess, as well, but really giving you the goalposts to aim for, if you know what I mean. So if you know exactly where the goal is in terms of the haircut and the objective, then um it'll be a lot easier for you. I mean, is David Beckham the most popular in like when people bring pictures in and ask for a haircut? Is that still the main guy?
SPEAKER_04It's normally the Beckham. You do get the Tom Cruise, but that's kind of dying out a little bit.
SPEAKER_10Ooh, what Tom Cruise? A particular film or I don't know.
SPEAKER_04People I've had like random different pictures of Tom Cruise throughout the ages, you know. You do get the long, floppy Tom Cruise, kind of Tom Cruise hair, uh Hugh Grant-esque longer hair come through, which I still find a bit odd.
SPEAKER_10I want the the Tom Cruise from Top Gun. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04Everyone likes the Tom Cruise from Top Gun. You do find again there's still a lot of the Killian Murphy from P. He blinders coming through.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04Obviously, you don't say David Beckham. It's a George Clooney as well. Only because they do try and struggle to kind of comprehend how to say it. So again, the best thing to say is bring in the pictures and go from there, and then from what you can do is just talk to the barber, show them, and it gives them a visual to work with. Because sometimes you can misconstrue what's said, like, you know, I want to go short on the backhand sides, how short is short. And once you've got a picture, you can vi the barber can visualize it and be like, actually, this is gonna be like say a two or a one, and then follow the hair cut from there.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, good show. So, um in do you have any advice for guys that are losing their hair in regards to styling or products, or is there anything to avoid?
SPEAKER_04Uh it's stuff like for example with a widow's peak. There's no point in keeping it long at the front because you're gonna have really wispy hair through the front. Best thing to do is to keep it a little bit shorter, much like a Jude Law does. Uh so he keeps his hair nice and short, nice and refined, and that means it doesn't look as thinning as it is. Um, don't use anything too wet look on the hair because it can clump the hair together. So, for example, if you're using wet look gel on thinning hair, you are gonna clump the hair together, your scalp's gonna show through a lot more. Using something like a sea salt spray, which gives the hair a bit of grit and a bit of volume with a bit of texture, it gives you a bit more of a fuller finish. For example, if you go in the sea, your hair comes out a lot thicker, a lot light and a lot fuller. Um, it sits nice and natural and nice and gritty.
SPEAKER_10Samuel Hickey there. And now a word from our sponsor on beards by Seth Rogan.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna make fun of you until you shave the beard. That's the rules. That's the whole point. You're supposed to be tempted into shaving. Your face looks like Robin Williams Knuckles.
SPEAKER_10Thanks for that, Seth. Okay, from a Seth to a Stefan. Now we're gonna talk to Stefan Avansatu. He is the Master Barber at Dolce and Cabana, which has a flagship store in New Bond Street in London town. Okay, so on the podcast now we have Stefan Avansatu, the Master Barber at Dolce and Cabana. How are you doing, Stefan? Very well, thank you.
SPEAKER_08Yourself?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I'm very good, thanks, mate. Uh so this week we're talking about hairstyles and beards and grooming in general. Uh, can you just give us a little bit of background about yourself and how you got into barbering, please?
SPEAKER_08Um, I started off in ladies' hair, um, started working at John Friedo. Uh, was there for about two and a half to three years, then became allergic to hair colour and hair dye. No way. Wear it, yeah, which was a bit of a bummer.
SPEAKER_10No, that that must be like a like a porn star being allergic to boobs. God dealt you a really bad hand on that one.
SPEAKER_08I've I've always used Gardner being uh having hay fever, but I like that one. I might change it to that one. That's amazing. Um so yeah, so that's where um I was already qualified in ladies' hair, but obviously I couldn't work in a salon environment, so I wanted to take what I'd already learned and try and progress on that. Uh so I was halfway there, had a really good friend who owns a barber shop near near where I grew up, which is in South London Stratham, where I always used to go and get my hair cut, and he said, Stefan, you're halfway there, why don't you start barbering? And it wasn't something I was really keen on doing, but in the end, I started um started managing a couple of shops in the suburban areas. Uh and where I'd worked up in Mayfair and in the London, central London area, I thought that's where I'd like to be. So I started in the suburbs and then moved back into central London, where I've been ever since. So I've been in central London for about 11 to 12 years now, on and off, where because I stopped working in Mayfair when I stopped doing ladies' hair.
SPEAKER_09Right.
SPEAKER_08Um, and then I came back. Well, I went travelling for a little bit, and then um I came back to central London, and that's that's where I don't know, you meet the most amazing people, the most influential people, it's where you tend to get noticed in the bigger cities, you know. So yeah.
SPEAKER_10Prime location. So how much uh it's been a while since I've been to a barber mate, so um indulge me, how much does it cost for a short back inside these days?
SPEAKER_08Um I mean, you can get from what where I work or just yeah, yeah. I mean it from where I work it starts from 60, and if it's a haircut with me, it goes to 80. Right, okay. Um it doesn't particularly I mean obviously you can find a lot of cheaper barbers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um but I mean we we are quite top-end, very luxury, the store's amazing. Um our barbers are very, very good as well, so we try and keep to a certain uniform structure, basically.
SPEAKER_10So yeah, I mean typically when I when I did have hair in in my prime and when I had hope in my eyes, in my mid-20s, I'd always see the same dude. Uh, you know, because I guess guys are quite fussy, they like to have um someone police their hair. Yeah. Uh a little bit like when you're young and you're at school, and you can only use the one cubicle. And if someone's in that cubicle, then you just go home and take a dump. Getting onto the like the hairstyles and and beards, actually, I wanted to talk about beards. It's right. I had the feeling that beards had this huge renaissance about three or four years ago, but I would see all of my mates just grow out all their beards. Um unfortunately I couldn't do it, I couldn't get past the scratch phase of about two or three weeks. Uh would you say that it's peaked, uh, that it's had its zenith um and is now receding, or is the renaissance still going, still full steam ahead?
SPEAKER_08You know, um I people think that it's is people are starting to shave their their beards off, but I haven't seen like a lot of my clients still have beards, and a lot of my clients still are trying to grow a new beard, you know. So I mean it depends on the person, it depends how how soon they got onto the beard phase. Um but beards are still pretty much up there. A lot of my clients tend to have beards. I mean, it also depends on their job. You know, some clients aren't actually allowed to have beards at work, some are very flexible on how they look at work. Um, and I've got clients from all ends of the spectrum, so I mean, I I still see a lot of beards around, and I'm I'm one of the bearded guys, I guess. Uh, we're still quite a short beard, but um, yeah, there are still a hell of a lot of beards around and people coming in with beards, so I haven't really seen a drop in them.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, uh, well, I I mean I've noticed just really in my own circles a couple of the guys that did have the huge Lennon and Jim Morrison-esque beards of the 70s, so they're kind of gone away now. I noticed uh Ricky Sam. Well sorry, Ricky Hall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah recently shaved his beard off as well. So I was just wondering.
SPEAKER_08He did it for charity or something.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, which is which is always a good thing, you know.
SPEAKER_08Also, I mean, as the sort of summer months start to approach and people start to go on holidays, they don't really want to go away with a big beard. Um, they do want to sort of try and tan the area where they had the beard. So, I mean, it depends on the actual person, what they're doing in their lives, what they're doing in their current situation. Um, so it doesn't really it's not really specific, you know. If if someone shaves their beard off, right, everyone's gonna shave their beards off. It's not really like that. So, I mean, it just really depends on the person more than anything, I think.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. Um, and you say you've got you've got a beard on the go. Do you have any ambition for the beard?
SPEAKER_08No, I I always get to like three or four weeks, and it really irritates me, it really cheeses me, and I just like I I give up.
SPEAKER_10Well, I hear people say you just gotta punch past that, but it's impossible. You lose sleep, you wake up with a pillow stuck to you like velcro.
SPEAKER_08Uh your skin doesn't feel great, you know, and it's like digging into your skin. And I mean, I I I don't know, I've got really sensitive skin as well, so I have to be quite limited. I'm quite limited on what products I can actually use for myself and for my face. Um I've I've got quite a coarse beard as well, so uh I would one day want to sort of actually sort of grow a full-on beard, like we may let's call it a traveller's beard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um also working in the luxury high end of the spectrum, is it I still have to look quite you know, well groomed and I have to look the part as well. So me going into work with a really scruffy beard, well still trying to tame it around the edges and stuff. Um I still have to look quite clean and presentable, you know.
SPEAKER_10So and plus it's another thing that you just have to look after, isn't it? You know exactly. I mean it's a lot of maintenance. It's another one of life's problems, and exactly.
SPEAKER_08I mean, you're seeing a lot of a lot of the sort of guys with less hair on their head sort of growing beards, doesn't it?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, well that I mean that was w that was why they threw the gauntlet down to me because you know I'm follically challenged, so I thought, well let's just not have all skin on the head, let's just go for a bit of beards, but yeah, I just can't do it, man. I just can't do it.
SPEAKER_08I tell I'll tell you what I have uh noticed an influx in a lot of guys shaving their heads this uh a lot of my clients have come in and said, right, get rid of it, and they've come in from a like a really, really nice um style, um and then they've just shaved their heads off and now their hair's off their hair off on on their head and they want to um grow a beard out, you know. So I mean we're seeing a bit more of an influx in that at the moment.
SPEAKER_10Now take this with the spirit that it's intended, Stefan. Yes, does do people really need to come to you to shave their heads?
SPEAKER_08No.
SPEAKER_10Is there a special skill set that's involved?
SPEAKER_08Uh I mean it depends. I mean, fade doing a fade isn't the easiest, so if you're doing it yourself. Right. Um, getting a barber to do it is much easier. Also, I mean, a lot of guys they don't actually have to come to me, they can just go to an all your your average barber, you know, and just get their hair shaved off. But a lot of my clients do try and do it themselves and then they come in and sort of ask me to get the bits that they've missed and sort me out. So, no, not necessarily, they don't have to come to me, and and it doesn't cost them 80 pounds if if I am shaving their hair off.
SPEAKER_10But you mean there's a discount on just uh Yeah, yeah, we we give we give discounts for that, though. Nice, well that's charitable. Um lastly, I spit probably more tangently. Uh, is there a set routine that you have when you cut your somebody's hair? Like uh in terms of conversation, you don't want to hit the usual uh where have you been on your holidays, crikey, you look fat or anything like that. Do you know what I mean? Is there any uh kind of go-to conversations that you have when you're talking to people?
SPEAKER_08The thing is, I mean you have to build like that relationship with your client before you can before you can know what you can speak about. I mean, you obviously start with the usual stuff, oh how's work, you know, and um you got any holidays going this year? So I mean I've built a like a really good rapport with the majority of my clients.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_08Um so they trust me. Um I hear some funny stories, some sad stories, some really surprising stories, you know. Uh it's just how it's your it's your confidence with your clients and then it's your client's confidence with you, you know.
SPEAKER_10You uh I don't suppose you care to break that client confidentiality and tell us what's getting no, not really. I mean my clients sort of come in and uh because I guess people can mistake that chair for a confession booth a lot of the time, you know.
SPEAKER_07A lot of people call me their psychiatrist, you know.
SPEAKER_08So that I mean I've got 50-year-old guys coming in asking me for advice, and I'm only 28. Uh and it's like uh right, okay. Um but then again, a lot of my clients like to hear my stories, and um it's all about building that relationship at first. Once you've built that relationship and that trust, you can pretty much talk about anything with them.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. Okay, man. Well, look, cheers, Stefan. Um, I appreciate you taking time out. Um I did have one last question actually. I know I keep on saying this is the last question, but uh uh I've got, like I say, a couple of friends in the trade, and I'm always wondered about how far you can go in terms of um how can I phrase this? In terms of getting money, because you've only got one pair of hands and you can only do a certain amount of haircuts in the day. So obviously there's a ceiling of where you can put yourself financially. Do you have like do you look down the road of life and say, well, look, I can actually double what I earn now, or I can get people under my wing to do this, what I'm doing here? Or or do you think like that's it? You've kind of hit the tip of the spear.
SPEAKER_08No, you need I mean well, one in this trade, you never stop learning. Um so you're constantly learning, you're to constantly taking new things in. Um, and back to your question, no, I'm not gonna stop here. Um, there's a long road for me, and I have some major plans coming up soon. Awesome. Um, so I guess watch this space. Um, and I mean it's taken me a long time to get to where I am today, and and and the road's endless, you know. You you sort of take it to how far you want to take it, and you go from there. I mean, you've got a lot of there's a lot of barbers out there that I mean they probably don't really have the business mentality and they're happy working for someone and they're happy sort of making money for someone else and and and they're content, you know, but then you've got a lot more people who are a bit more sort of adventurous and they want to do their own thing and they want to that I mean the opportunities are endless with this, with this, with my trade, and you can do it anywhere in the world, and you can you can you can actually actually like go anywhere, do it anywhere. Um, and I always get phone calls and I get job offers here and there as well. I've been offered jobs around the world. Um so the thing is endless, but I I don't want to I'm not stopping here, don't worry about that.
SPEAKER_10Excellent, okay. Well, look, um I guess watch that space, and that space can be found at stefanavanzatu.com or uh uh it's it's still in it's still being built.
SPEAKER_09Okay.
SPEAKER_08I I took it down and then I I I'm building it up again. So that's that should be launched within the next couple of months. Um and yeah, so watch that supposed.
SPEAKER_10In the meantime though, uh I see you're on Instagram at Stefan underscore avanzatu. So uh Perfect. So let's ever let's everyone go there. Great. Ohlock, I've clapped my hands again. I'll uh I'll do something in post. I just got off my seat and that was it. Just the first thing.
SPEAKER_08Have you got a thing about clapping your hands then?
SPEAKER_10It's just something mental where I have to get my mind into gear to kind of get it onto the next thing and a hand clap is what I normally do. But when I started listening back to the early podcasts, all you can hear was like this every time I was talking.
SPEAKER_08Would you be able to send me the link for this?
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_08And also, one more thing. Um, are we still on air by any chance?
SPEAKER_10Yes, no, sorry, go for it. And what Stefan confessed to me there, I will take to my grave. Okay, now a word from our resident fashion insider Rob Jones. It's over to you, Rob Jones.
SPEAKER_06Legend.
SPEAKER_10Okay, so welcome to the podcast, Rob Jones, Fashion Insider, and good friend of mine. How are you doing, Rob?
SPEAKER_06Thank you very much, Pete. I'm very well, thank you.
SPEAKER_10Excellent, great. Well, this week we're talking about beards, haircuts, stubble, growth, grooming. Uh, what you're currently rocking at the minute, because I know you go through phases with your hair, don't you?
SPEAKER_06Well, um as an actor on the side, um, I do obviously have a lot of changes of hair and beard. And I found that the current hipster trend that's everywhere at the moment seems to be to be in my favour. I get a lot of work having a beard and a you know, and uh and my current hairstyle, which is uh kind of very short on the sides, almost shaved, uh, with a kind of top knot. Or it's not really a top knot, it's more of like a back knot. So it's not a pony towel, it's like a back bun, if that makes sense. Yeah, but um, yeah, and I I keep getting typecasts for these roles, but you know, hell, they're gonna pay. So uh that's that's what I'm sort of staying with at the moment. And plus, um I can wear it down as well and have a nice sort of floppy, cool, surfery kind of haircut as well. So it's kind of double, double whammy.
SPEAKER_10And what kind of roles are these? I imagine it to be some kind of Viking extra, or maybe a Viking frontman.
SPEAKER_06Well, let's let's just get this clear, Peter. Um, since uh I've had an agent uh for the last few years, I don't do extra work anymore. But um, you know, for all you buddy actors out there, you will need to do some extra work to get off the ground uh and and be proud of it. But yeah, um basically, role-wise, it's I I keep getting um either hipster, hipster dad, hipster man, hipster male, uh, and basically you have to wear braces or check shirt and big boots. I mean, to be fair, I'm not far off anyway, but I'm more I'm more rock and roll in real life. Um but yeah, the the good thing about it it's really versatile haircut, so you can you you know take out the man bun and then you've got long hair. You know, the beard can be messy or it can be groomed, you know, so it can be like for a period piece or it can be for a barbaric piece or it can be an up-to-date look. Um, and also, you know, if another role comes along that needs short hair or no hair or something completely different, you know, you've got a good base to start with. You can just get rid of it all. So um it's it's a really good option for an actor to have, you know. It's kind of like uh you that you you know you can have short hair and they'll stick a wig on, but you know, it's just so much easier to have the hair in the first place.
SPEAKER_10Oh yeah, all right, tell me about it, yeah. Uh so do you does it take much maintenance, a bit of upkeep, or you know, how many hours of the day are you burning calories over the hair?
SPEAKER_06Do you know what? It's actually really bloody easy because again, it it if you're in a rush, I mean day to day it's tied back, so literally it's just sticking it back, whacking it in the bun or a ponytail, or you know, in a hairband, and it's that's it. Like the only maintenance is having it cut, you know. I like to keep it quite short and neat on the sides, and that's someone else's job anyway. Do you know what I mean? Just go to the hair the I like I've been trying out these Turkish barbers for the first time, uh, and they're bloody brilliant. Like, I can't believe I've not been before. Like they the the amount of care they put in, you know, they they do the whole hot wax in your ears, burn the hair out of your nose, you know, as well as like really tight, you know, detailed, defined edges on the your hairline, and you know, they just give it all the kind of pizzazz, you know, rather than just a kind of like regular haircut. So yeah, I definitely definitely recommend that. Um but yeah, it's just it's easy it's a really easy haircut, you know. With with short hairstyles, you you you find that you're always having to gel your hair, you haven't flick it around in different directions and get it all perfect, and you might have a little bit sticking out the side, whereas this, because it's all long, it's gonna go exactly where you tie it. And when it's when it's down, it's down.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that's good. It's you've got some range going on. Uh and with these Turkish barbers, are these the ones that have the ashtrays on the chair that you sit in? And how many cigarettes do they get through?
SPEAKER_06Um, to be fair, the one I went to, uh there was no smoking, but they had like a foot massage or thing on the floor, so you you got your feet on that, that's all nice. Um, and they've got little armholes in the uh in the apron, so you can still like be on your phone and stuff while you're having that done. And uh the only thing that's not so good is the conversation. Uh it's a little bit broken English, but you know, that's the way it goes.
SPEAKER_10I think your English has come on though, mate. I mean, you you're spoken pretty lucidly. You're not doing too bad. Uh beards, Bob. Beards. Uh now, how is how long is your biggest beard that you've ever grown in your beard career?
SPEAKER_06Uh the biggest beard I've ever grown is probably uh if you look up uh Robert Cash, which is my acting name, uh Robert Cash, Pain of the Viking, uh it's just a little short film we made, uh, purely just to show off uh the look, really, just uh for casting directors and whatnot. So it's not an official short movie, it's just something we we we homemade. But um yeah, there is quite a big beard. Like I reckon if you the only way I can describe it is if you took the chin part of it, put your finger in like up towards your chin, I reckon my beard would cover half a finger.
SPEAKER_10Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_06Like you could put go half a finger into the beard before you touch the chin.
SPEAKER_10So about six inches?
SPEAKER_06Oh god, no, no, no, I'm uh no one's got a six inch finger, Pete. Um I'd I'd I'd say I'd say it's a good like two inches sticking out from the chin bone.
SPEAKER_00Right. Oh god, I'm gonna do it.
SPEAKER_06Which is which is which is pretty good, really, when you consider the the size of my own head, which is quite big. You know, that's that's quite that's quite a lot of beard. And um but yeah, at the moment I've I've got more of a sort of clip. It's more it's it's not stubble, it's it's it's it's past stubble, but at the moment it's it's quite trimmed, and I've I've kind of cut in a bit of a neckline and stuff because I've I wasn't blessed with the uh the chiseled jaw that all the uh all the really good actors have, so I've had to kind of cheat mine.
SPEAKER_09So what about uh your woman? Uh does she kind of give a little bit of a couple of things?
SPEAKER_05She doesn't have a beard now. She shaved it all off.
SPEAKER_10Oh god, I I'm gonna have to cut that one out. What about the um but doesn't she complain? You know, when it gets to the gruff stage, when it gets to about a month in, does she go, look, you you're kind of scratching me now? Tell that guy to shut up. Professional podcast going on in it.
SPEAKER_06The old coffee man's just turned up. No, no, so to uh to answer your question, no, she to be fair, she doesn't mind it. Um I think when it starts getting a bit hobo-y, because like you there is that stage where you have to commit to get to get past that stage. So you've got stubble, then you've got like lazy for like a week or two, you know, and then then after that it starts to get a bit shit looking. What can I say shit?
SPEAKER_10We've done it twice now, so that's good.
SPEAKER_06Okay, um, so yeah, so it gets a bit shit looking and three times. So so there's that stage there where before it looks like an epic big big beard, you know, and then you can start really moving it about. There's that kind of period of where they've got to put up with it, you know, looking a bit naff. Um, but when it's really short, it's cool, she doesn't mind that, and when it's kind of big and stylish, she likes that as well. But I think it's just the in-between committed bit that she's she's not so keen of.
SPEAKER_10What do you think? I mean, I know we're not we're both men, we're both male men, but but its beards are quite divisive amongst women. You know, my girl doesn't really like any kind of beard, yet you get some women that are just all beards and tattoos. Uh where do you think the the needle's going to?
SPEAKER_06I think it's the same with with clothes and music, mate. You know, just some things are not for everyone, are they? Like so some people like the caveman thing because it probably somewhere in their brain tells them they're gonna get punched in the face, thrown over the shoulder, taken into the bushes and made love to. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_09Why punched in the face?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but or but you're or for others, you know, they they like the clean, cut, suave, business-y types, you know, because it probably says, you know, I'm rich and I'm you know, clean and crisp. I don't know, there's but there's probably loads of different reasons. It's just like music, really. Some people love metal, some people love hip hop.
SPEAKER_10Do you know next time we'll have to get uh your missus on the blower and maybe she can describe it for us. We'll get the women's in point. Well listen, uh, I think we've all learned something here today. Cheers, Bobby, thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_06Alright, mate. And uh yeah, and good luck learning your new words. Uh I've understood uh from uh an internal source that you've just learned a new word today, scatology, is that right?
SPEAKER_10It is, yeah, it's my new word, and also scatologist, which is uh the study of excrement. So that studies it. So it's uh yeah, it's one up there. I'm I'm glad we crowbared it into this conversation.
SPEAKER_06Well there you go, because I know you're yearning to use these words, so I'm glad I can help.
SPEAKER_10Thank you, mate, for facilitating that. That was a wonderful, uh wonderful volley setup which I spite. Brilliant. Okay, mate. Uh where can we find you on Twitter and keep up to date with you?
SPEAKER_06Okay, well um my main Twitter is Rob Missing Andy. Um so it's obviously the uh the band that I'm in as well. Uh so it's Rob MissingAndy. Or if you want to keep up with the acting stuff, you can go to Robertcash TV.
SPEAKER_10We will indeed. Okay, pal. Until next week. Alright then, mate. See you soon.
SPEAKER_06Bye bye. Lighters.
SPEAKER_10Rob Jones there, thank you, Bobby. Okay, now we're gonna finish off with an interview with Josh, the founder of thebeardmag.com. Okay, so on the podcast now we have Joshua. Joshua is the founder of The Beard Mag. How are you doing, Josh?
SPEAKER_03Hey, good thanks, good.
SPEAKER_10Cool, thanks for taking the time out to speak to me. So, Josh, I guess you'll be the guy to go to for beard news and beard trends. Um, tell me a little bit, please, about Ricky Hall's recent shave. Um, he did it for charity, didn't he? Do you know how much money he raised?
SPEAKER_03Um, I don't know off the top of it, top of my head, I know he had um quite a high target and he was quite close to reaching the target. Um but yeah, so Ricky Hall is, as we all know, one of the most famous bearded models out there. And I guess he he uses his beards and his kind of social influence to kind of help raise awareness for I think I'm trying to pronounce the word, it's one cancer. Um, but I know that his father passed away a bit, unfortunately, and he was just trying to help raise awareness. Um I thought he was gonna get the full beard trim, but he went down to the uh Bronson mustache, um, which does suit him really well. But I've just seen recent photos, that was a few weeks ago, and he's already got his beard halfway back already, so he's very lucky to get that thickness, which um most men unfortunately haven't got.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that reminds me of uh when Homer Simpson would shave in front of the mirror. He'd do a clean shave and then go, ah, all done, and then it would pop back like three seconds later as he leaves the mirror. Yeah. Um yeah, so I mean that's I mean it's great that these guys are actually you know partaking in this thing. It's great to have awareness for charities for one, but also to actually kind of sacrifice something that was curated over six years. I mean, he was growing that that was almost his baby, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that's kind of one of the things I know that when he was picked up as an original model, he didn't have the beard, and that kind of he almost kind of grew into that character of the beards and the motorbikes and the tattoos, and I mean it's worked really well for him, and well, he's I definitely follow everything that he does, and he's done some recent partnerships with a few big beard brands that I follow. So it's uh we've actually featured a style guide of him on the site, so yeah, it's definitely one of the big names out there.
SPEAKER_10Cool, and the site is thhebeardmag.com. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Um I noticed on your site you have think something trending called Beards from Below. Uh, when when did that start and where did it kick off?
SPEAKER_03Um, but I thought it was actually a new trend, but I was um I kind of posted something, I posted an article the other day and then posted something on social and had um a few people contact me saying, No, this has been around for years, so it's kind of one that I might have missed out on. The magazine's only been running for about a year, so I probably missed out on that one. But yeah, it was picked up on Reddit uh the other, I think it was last month, and yeah, kind of went to some of the big sites like the Lab Bible and GQ, and I actually found a pretty funny video yesterday on Lad Bible of a guy who's walking around doing his shopping, going to the DIY store, and it's just all the view from the below beard, uh and is in the shower and it just looks like he's got a tiny head on his shoulders. Uh I thought that was quite funny.
SPEAKER_10Do you know what? I when I looked at that picture, mate, it took me about two or three minutes to decipher what it was. I thought it looked like even your nutsack or something had just come up there, or is this the back of his head and it's one weird comb over forward? I I just couldn't work it out, but then uh put the pieces together. But that's quite cool. Yeah, I like I like that. So, what other beard trends are going on? What in beard world? Is are there any ones that are peaking above the others?
SPEAKER_03Um, I mean, there's been a few recent big ones. I think the beards from below has been one. There was uh glitter beards, which was one as well, where people were putting lots of beard spray and hair spray in their beard and then glitter in it. And I think a few guys decided to do their eyebrows as well. Um, there was one recently where people were putting candy canes and hanging beard baubles, they're all kind of like Christmassy related. Um I'd say the kind of most recent trend though is well, it's like a it's probably an uprising, really. So there's this there's an Instagram page called, or there still is called The Bearded Villains, and it was founded by um Frederick von Knox. And I guess he just wanted to start as a site, like a worldwide society for all men who have beards, and it's actually he's been getting so much press recently. I know that he did an interview for Steamer in America the other the other day, and yeah, it's it's basically like the concept of I kind of relate it to Sons of Anarchy, but for the beard world, so there's lots of different chapters across the cities, and people applied to get their different badges for charity to join the to join the uh membership. And yeah, it's just I actually took one of my writers out to California last week to uh meet some of the original people from the LA chapter, so that was quite good. I didn't get a chance to meet the founder, but it was definitely an experience, and they do regular meetups and social media. I think they've got over 300,000 now, and that's just for the main page, but I mean hundreds of different chapters um online. So, yeah, that's that's definitely a big trend. Um, the whole kind of brotherhood of bearded villains and bearded men.
SPEAKER_10Amazing, and it it's great that you treated one of your writers to a trip to California. I feel like I'm gonna have to now grow my beard full on and hand you my CV.
SPEAKER_03To be fair, like I mean, I I was out there and I'd my beard was really big and like I've got red hair, so I kind of stuck out like a sore thumb, and I was actually nearly picked up while we done Hollywood Boulevard, and I was nearly on the Jimmy Kimmel show, and there's this game called Foreign or Not, and I think the look out there is just it's still kind of like a fairly new look. Um, but yeah, it was definitely like an experience. I'm hoping to do something similar again. And we were wearing kind of like beard mag t-shirts and had like these little business cards we were giving out. So anyone with we saw with a beard we're running over, and yeah, it's a good piece of like um promotion for the site as well.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, definitely. Well, you're a walking billboard for your site, that's fantastic. Um Josh, tell me, you're in London based. Uh can you recommend any decent barbers? Uh not for me, but for other people that have her.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, so my barber's choice probably is called the Nomad Barber. Um and it is it's kind of from this the guy is actually called the guy who set it up is called Miguel and he's the nomad barber and he's pretty famous on YouTube and he's got almost, I think, a hundred thousand on Instagram as well. And um I just love the story behind the barber shop and how he's learned his trade. So he's travelled around each different part of the globe and he's learned all the different barbering techniques, and he's probably I'd probably put him up there as the most all-round barber that you'd ever meet. And you can ask him any question about barbership or barbers or hair or anything, and he's just he seems to just know it all, and he's just recently opened his second shop in Berlin, and the team there are great, it's a great atmosphere, and yeah. I mean, I'm I'd like to think that I go there every other week, but it's usually kind of like once a month, just to kind of even if it's just to catch up with the guys because they're a great bunch, and yeah, they're just actually so they were located in Brick Lane, so the hipster, they're in that kind of like hipster area around Shoreditch, so they've definitely got that prime location.
SPEAKER_10Awesome. Well, what was the name again? Sorry.
SPEAKER_03Um it was called so it's called the Nomad Barber.
SPEAKER_10The Nomad Barber, also, okay. Um, well, cheers Josh. Appreciate you taking time out, mate. If you want to check out Josh, you're on the social at The Beard Mag on Twitter and on Instagram, is that right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and on Facebook as well.
SPEAKER_10And Facebook and also head over to the site thebeardmag.com. Lots of articles, lots of cool, trendy pictures. Wicked. Alright, cheers Josh. I'll let you crack on. Cheers for that. Thank you. Thanks, mate. Bye. Thank you, Joshua. Okay, so that's the end. The end is finally here. That's about 50 minutes of beard talk. How about that? Okay, so before I go, make sure you join us on the social, which is at menswear style. Make sure you check out the website menswearstyle.co.uk. And I think I'll leave the final word on beards to Lord Flash.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Bridesmaid, like the beard. Give me something to hang on to the microphone.
SPEAKER_10Hey Sam, um I'm I'm just gonna put something else in at the end of it. I won't put it in the interview, but I did think it would be a really good sketch if someone comes in like me with no hair, but with a load of pictures of what they would like to look like.
SPEAKER_04That'd be absolutely amazing. I think that'd be absolutely hilarious. I would know what to do.
SPEAKER_10I mean, uh yeah, I just don't I don't obviously I can't do it to you 'cause I've already given you the you'd know the ruse, but um perhaps I'd have to do it in one of the other barbers and just go, yeah, do you know, if you can just get me like Tom Hardy. You know, it's not you know, I I'm willing to pay over the odds. I d I don't care.
SPEAKER_04Oh that's trying that's a hair transport, that you know, is there that's nothing we do here, I'm afraid.
SPEAKER_10Oh boy. Okay, well maybe one day.
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